Energy produced by an infinite waterfall
Sep. 4th, 2014 06:06 pmA friend asked on twitter, if you could place two connected portals anywhere on earth (but not in space), what would you do with them. Personally, linking Cambridge and Liv's campus flat would be nicest! Geopolitically, probably linking two disparate regions might be most useful.
But of course, the question turned to free energy. Suppose the portal is 1mx2m, laid horizontally, one at ground level and one 100km up at the edge of space, and you diverted sufficiently much water into the lower one to get an endless waterfall. How much energy would you get out?
I'm not sure I have these equations right any more, but under those assumptions (and that the density of water and the gravitational constant for the whole height are rounded to the nearest power of ten and that the square root of 2 is 1.5), and assuming that extracting the energy from the falling water slows it to rest again, I tried to calculate the speed and the energy. I think freefall from that height (assuming you can somehow construct an airtight tube) lands at 1500m/s. And that translates to 3x10^12 Watts = 3TW. Can anyone confirm if I have that right?
It's hard to tell from wikipedia, but it looks like that world energy consumption was 15 TW the last time someone worked it out and updated that page. So this device would make a worthwhile dent in it, but not obsolete everything else.
Of course, that assumes there are sensible engineering solutions to "build an airtight tube to the edge of space" and "slow water from mach 5 safely without wasting any energy" which there probably aren't.
You could dig the tunnel _down_ instead, but you'd have to actually dig it, although you could put one portal down there and dig up through the other one, until the rock fell freely. And you'd have to be careful not to go down too far because if your experiment starts spewing pressurised magma you've invented your own personal volcano, and you have to hope that it solidifies and buries it well enough to withstand ten atmospheres of pressure.
Of course, if you did the above experiment with rock instead of water, the energy involved would be 10 times greater, although presumably the engineering challenge would still be the limiting factor.
However, leaving the practical impossibilities aside, something bothered me about the physics. It seems like, if you don't slow the falling substance completely but let it go through the portal already at high speed, you get correspondingly more energy out. I guess because the limiting factor for energy is that each atom going through a portal to 100km up creates a certain amount of potential energy, so you get the more energy the more you cause that to happen. It seems dodgy that the energy production could just keep on growing in that case, but I guess the assumptions violated physics, so there's no reason not to expect that to violate a wide number of other principles. Have I actually got that right?
But of course, the question turned to free energy. Suppose the portal is 1mx2m, laid horizontally, one at ground level and one 100km up at the edge of space, and you diverted sufficiently much water into the lower one to get an endless waterfall. How much energy would you get out?
I'm not sure I have these equations right any more, but under those assumptions (and that the density of water and the gravitational constant for the whole height are rounded to the nearest power of ten and that the square root of 2 is 1.5), and assuming that extracting the energy from the falling water slows it to rest again, I tried to calculate the speed and the energy. I think freefall from that height (assuming you can somehow construct an airtight tube) lands at 1500m/s. And that translates to 3x10^12 Watts = 3TW. Can anyone confirm if I have that right?
It's hard to tell from wikipedia, but it looks like that world energy consumption was 15 TW the last time someone worked it out and updated that page. So this device would make a worthwhile dent in it, but not obsolete everything else.
Of course, that assumes there are sensible engineering solutions to "build an airtight tube to the edge of space" and "slow water from mach 5 safely without wasting any energy" which there probably aren't.
You could dig the tunnel _down_ instead, but you'd have to actually dig it, although you could put one portal down there and dig up through the other one, until the rock fell freely. And you'd have to be careful not to go down too far because if your experiment starts spewing pressurised magma you've invented your own personal volcano, and you have to hope that it solidifies and buries it well enough to withstand ten atmospheres of pressure.
Of course, if you did the above experiment with rock instead of water, the energy involved would be 10 times greater, although presumably the engineering challenge would still be the limiting factor.
However, leaving the practical impossibilities aside, something bothered me about the physics. It seems like, if you don't slow the falling substance completely but let it go through the portal already at high speed, you get correspondingly more energy out. I guess because the limiting factor for energy is that each atom going through a portal to 100km up creates a certain amount of potential energy, so you get the more energy the more you cause that to happen. It seems dodgy that the energy production could just keep on growing in that case, but I guess the assumptions violated physics, so there's no reason not to expect that to violate a wide number of other principles. Have I actually got that right?