Holy Water
Jun. 25th, 2008 04:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackDetails about what holy water is have come up several times recently. A related question is one constantly popping up in vampire stories, as to whether the protagonists could make a great boatload of water and use supersoakers, or not?
This was fine back in the days of Dracula, when no-one knew anything about vampires, and they were a mysterious, unknown monster, and you didn't use holy water because it was the first thing that sprang to mind, but (a) to seek refuge in God from the vampire and (b) because you don't know why but Van H advises it, and you trust him and are desperate enough to try anything[1][2].
In the Harry Dresden books, the werewolf-silver myth has a twist: werewolves are vulnerable to bullets made from silver you inherited. Thus there's inherently no convenient answer, you're always chasing risky one-shots unless your family were battling werewolves before you were born.
Thesis
I don't think any excuse for the limited supply of holy water could make logical consistent sense within the story. But I've a suggestion for what could fit narratively, a gut rule-of-thumb that predicts whether or not something would fit into the story or not: you can only use holy water blessed for some other purpose.
You could probably go and fill up a few pint bottles from a convenient tap at certain churches, but not conveniently get gallons of the stuff. Is that consistent with how the availability of holy water in vampire novels us usually portrayed? (Not whether that excuse actually applies -- it plainly isn't, oft contradicted if you take it literally. But does it fit thematically, would it fit the facts that there's always some holy water available, but never lots?)
Alternative thesis
The entire vampire thing -- as well as the entire catholic thing -- and indeed, similar to the jewish thing -- can you nest --s like this? -- -- -- often have a ritualistic type of religion, if you do this, then should happens. Not necessarily, but you definitely should do various specific things.
Other religions have a greater emphasis on what you think: their vampire stories would be more the sort of ones where the hero prevails because God lends their sword strength, or where you shut your eyes and pray, and things turn out ok.
The ritualistic version, however, invites questions like "A priest can bless water. Well, can we take this water-blessing thing to the logical conclusion"? There's probably some rule that says no, but no-one knows what the rule is.
On the other hand, it suggests the modern church's conception of holy water may be a red herring. Another conception is that some water is particularly blessed, if you bring it from a sacred well, or the river Jordan, or been blessed under particularly auspicious circumstances by a dying pope on Easter Sunday. And water blessed by priests is something else[3].
Many people naturally feel like this, as witnessed by special water being called "holy water", even though that doesn't have the place in christianity water blessed by priests does.
If you need special water like this for vampires, it would nicely explain why it's limited.
[1] I can't recall whether holy water specifically showed up Stoker's novel.
[2] The other day, I saw a footnote designed to give relevant information most people didn't need! It wasn't humorous, nor superfluous, at all! I see those so rarely nowadays.
[3] I assume you can still be baptised in rivers[4]? But that doesn't involve pre-blessed water in the same way. If you baptise someone in a river, do you bless the water separately, or just the ducking? That might be an answer to if a priest can bless a whole river: yes, but only for a specific act, not forever. (It's flowing away and you're supposed to pour away holy water reverentially.)
[4] "If it's good enough for Jesus..."
This was fine back in the days of Dracula, when no-one knew anything about vampires, and they were a mysterious, unknown monster, and you didn't use holy water because it was the first thing that sprang to mind, but (a) to seek refuge in God from the vampire and (b) because you don't know why but Van H advises it, and you trust him and are desperate enough to try anything[1][2].
In the Harry Dresden books, the werewolf-silver myth has a twist: werewolves are vulnerable to bullets made from silver you inherited. Thus there's inherently no convenient answer, you're always chasing risky one-shots unless your family were battling werewolves before you were born.
Thesis
I don't think any excuse for the limited supply of holy water could make logical consistent sense within the story. But I've a suggestion for what could fit narratively, a gut rule-of-thumb that predicts whether or not something would fit into the story or not: you can only use holy water blessed for some other purpose.
You could probably go and fill up a few pint bottles from a convenient tap at certain churches, but not conveniently get gallons of the stuff. Is that consistent with how the availability of holy water in vampire novels us usually portrayed? (Not whether that excuse actually applies -- it plainly isn't, oft contradicted if you take it literally. But does it fit thematically, would it fit the facts that there's always some holy water available, but never lots?)
Alternative thesis
The entire vampire thing -- as well as the entire catholic thing -- and indeed, similar to the jewish thing -- can you nest --s like this? -- -- -- often have a ritualistic type of religion, if you do this, then should happens. Not necessarily, but you definitely should do various specific things.
Other religions have a greater emphasis on what you think: their vampire stories would be more the sort of ones where the hero prevails because God lends their sword strength, or where you shut your eyes and pray, and things turn out ok.
The ritualistic version, however, invites questions like "A priest can bless water. Well, can we take this water-blessing thing to the logical conclusion"? There's probably some rule that says no, but no-one knows what the rule is.
On the other hand, it suggests the modern church's conception of holy water may be a red herring. Another conception is that some water is particularly blessed, if you bring it from a sacred well, or the river Jordan, or been blessed under particularly auspicious circumstances by a dying pope on Easter Sunday. And water blessed by priests is something else[3].
Many people naturally feel like this, as witnessed by special water being called "holy water", even though that doesn't have the place in christianity water blessed by priests does.
If you need special water like this for vampires, it would nicely explain why it's limited.
[1] I can't recall whether holy water specifically showed up Stoker's novel.
[2] The other day, I saw a footnote designed to give relevant information most people didn't need! It wasn't humorous, nor superfluous, at all! I see those so rarely nowadays.
[3] I assume you can still be baptised in rivers[4]? But that doesn't involve pre-blessed water in the same way. If you baptise someone in a river, do you bless the water separately, or just the ducking? That might be an answer to if a priest can bless a whole river: yes, but only for a specific act, not forever. (It's flowing away and you're supposed to pour away holy water reverentially.)
[4] "If it's good enough for Jesus..."
no subject
Date: 2008-06-25 05:44 pm (UTC)I like the inherited silver thing :-)
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Date: 2008-06-25 06:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-25 06:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-25 08:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 09:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 05:59 pm (UTC)Your footnote [2] made me giggle so much!
The main holy water thread is a fascinating discussion, on which I have very little to add, apart from to affirm the comment that these myths weren't designed for people to take them to the logical extreme :)