Advance Cycle Boxes

[jack]

Just before traffic lights, there is a cycle-lane like box the width of the main lane, in which cyclists can stop at lights without being rear-ended by cars.

0. Is there an official name for them? "Advance cycle box" is in my head, is is equally likely to be something else entirely, or made up.

1. What is the intended use if the cyclist approaches the traffic lights behind three cars? I feel it should be obvious what they're supposed to do, but admit I can't tell. Obviously if you can accelerate briskly to 20mph, there's no problem, but if you can't, or don't want to?

Undertake if there is a clear cycle lane, else wait in the queue? Always undertake if you can? (But it's not clear when the highway code permits undertaking.) Overtake if you can? (But this is unlikely to be possible.) Always wait? (But that leaves a frustrated driver behind you.) Dismount and cross the intersection from the pavement? (But that's annoying and takes several times as long.)

2. If it were safe to do either, which would delay the drivers least: moving ahead to the cycle box, or waiting in turn. One way, the drivers ahead go past, but the one behind probably misses the lights. The other, all the drivers are delayed until the road is wide enough to overtake safely again.

3. What do you do?

I feel silly for not knowing, but most of the time, it doesn't come up, either because there's not enough of a queue, or the road is wide enough to permit cars overtaking cycles safely. And then when it does, I don't actually know.

Comments

[ilanin.livejournal.com]

As a driver, I would prefer cyclists to undertake. If you are in front of me at a junction, I can see you; if you don't I have to look around for cyclists as well as keeping an eye on the oncoming traffic.

[sillytrippy.livejournal.com]

Advanced stop lines - 178 at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

I seem to remember reading that you're only allowed to enter them through the cycle lane, but I don't see anything about that there. It also doesn't talk about the purpose of cycles being positioned ahead of traffic.

I've always had the assumption that they're so that cycles can get into a useful position for turning right. But I don't think that's particularly useful, either the lights are green and it's no good, or they're red and it's kindof awkward entering through the cycle lane and shuffling across. I don't see much point in them generally.

[captain-aj.livejournal.com]

I'm not really sure what the "proper" use for them is in various scenarios; the government (local and national) is very muddled when it comes to cycle facilities. I model this muddle as "The more pictures of bicycles we paint on the road or pavement, the more green and pro-cycling we are. Get your paintbrush and jump to it!".

In general, I'd recommend not using them unless you're already at the front of the queue, in which case you just roll along into them in the desired position for left, right or straight-on turns as if you were on a road that didn't have one.

If you roll up behind a traffic queue, undertaking to get into the box risks bad things happening if the lights turn (or have turned) green while you're doing it; you're off to the side of the queue, in a driver's blind spot and likely to get swiped by somebody turning left, or going straight on and not leaving room for you. There's also the questionable etiquette of queue-jumping ;-).

Just join the traffic queue as you would in any other vehicle. As has been pointed out in another comment, it's much better to be visible dead ahead (say, to the person joining the queue after you) than in a tight spot to the side where you're less likely to be seen. The issue of minor delays for you or somebody else in the queue is dwarfed by safety considerations.

[bugshaw.livejournal.com]

"The more pictures of bicycles we paint on the road or pavement, the more green and pro-cycling we are. Get your paintbrush and jump to it!"

And on the cycle/foot path leading from the river up to Tesco, some wag has painted "DISMOUNT" under the bicycle picture.

[sillytrippy.livejournal.com]

I don't really agree with the "questionable etiquette of queue-jumping" thing. If I'm approaching a queue of cars, there seems to be a fairly high chance that the next car behind me will accelerate, overtake, and slam the brakes on. Where's the queuing etiquette there?

If there's space to the left, and I judge it safe, I'll take it. Note that "juding it safe" would not include cycle boxes.

[atreic.livejournal.com]

It's not about pissing off the cars, it's a "pro-cycling" thing.

[Most of the rest based on traffic doing what it does in London]

Cyclists move slower than cars, (and accellerating and decelerating is much more effort) so sitting around waiting at lights represents a bigger delay and more inconvenience for them. For a car, their max legal speed is generally faster than the speed the traffic is flowing at, so after traffic lights they can speed up to 30 until they end up in the same queue again at the next - they don't lose that much time.

Because of this and other factors, cyclists are inclined to ignore traffic lights all together, which is very bad. Therefore, a 'compromise' position is 'look, wait at the lights, but we only expect you to wait for one cycle of the lights, that's not _too_ long'.

So to answer your question, I think that if there's a cyclelane, undertake. If there isn't overtaking to the cycle box is often possible and easy, and is the right answer, but undertaking is equally expected. It's worth knowing the junction if you're doing this, so you know when all the traffic is about to start moving and squash you like a gnat.

Point 2 is missing the point (well, unless you're uber-considerate) - the system isn't about not pissing the drivers off. The drivers will overtake when there isn't space anyway, and travel at twice the speed of the bikes and forget all about them quite soon anyway.

[pavanne.livejournal.com]

I never know what to do either! I get funny looks for waiting. To make things worse, several near my house have a cycle lane when the road is wide, which *stops* when the road narrows or before you get to a an advanced stop line, which is where is might actually be useful. They then have bicycles painted on the road, with no lines or anything. Wtf? You're telling me I can ride a bicycle on the road? Gee, thanks.

I don't really see the point in advance cycle boxes though; I'd rather have a slightly slower start than filter through cars at each set of lights, and then be overtaken between lights (usually leaving a worryingly small gap). I only undertake when there's a lot of space and a cycle lane (often there are cars in the cycle lane), and occasionally overtake into the cycle box if I'm turning right or know the lights will be red for a long time.

[senji.livejournal.com]

If you look at the primary legislation (which I'm afraid I don't have a link to at the moment) you'll discover that you are in fact required to use the cycle lane to enter them, and that as an amusing consequence all the ones in Cambridge without access cycle-lanes are in fact totally useless.

This is a regular topic of discussion on cam.transport.

[naath.livejournal.com]

1. You are "meant" to only enter the box from the cycle lane. This usually means undertaking. Undertaking in this manner is often expected and it *is* allowed (you are in a separate lane undertaking stationary traffic).

2. If the road isn't wide enough to overtake a cyclist you *will* be delaying people-in-cars no matter what you do; your place in the 'queue' (of traffic in the whole system) might change *which* cars are delayed but is unlikely to change how many are delayed if the road is busy. If the road is *not* busy it might be nice to let the small number of cars behind you go past, however if the road *is* busy then waiting to let *everyone* past is clearly unfair to you.

3. I overtake or undertake the lights-queue depending on where I think there is space to do so (considering oncoming traffic, cycle lane width, etc.) to pull into the advanced box. If there is a car in the advanced box I stop just ahead of it.

[captain-aj.livejournal.com]

I don't really agree with the "questionable etiquette of queue-jumping" thing. If I'm approaching a queue of cars, there seems to be a fairly high chance that the next car behind me will accelerate, overtake, and slam the brakes on. Where's the queuing etiquette there?
I'm confused - are you saying it's ok for cyclists to jump queues, but not for cars to do so? The situation you outline with the impatient car driver sounds like queue-jumping as well, which, imo, is also behaviour unbecoming of a gentleman.

[pplfichi.livejournal.com]

If there's a box and I feel it's safe, I undertake/overtake to get into it, and if there's a car I stop just ahead of it. If I feel I can't get into a box safely (so a good percentage of the time where I don't have wide cycle lanes) I ignore it. If there's no box and a cycle lane I stay in the lane.

If neither exist and traffic is mostly stationary I undertake to the front of the queue, but I make sure I get into and stop in a appropriate lane.

If traffic is mostly flowing and there's no cycle lane I generally stay in lane (or on the far left if that seems safer) and don't undertake as I don't feel safe doing it. I might under or overtake if there's a box and I feel I can safely get into it.

[quism.livejournal.com]

I tend to do whatever feels safest at the time. I'm happy to undertake and overtake: the box on the Brooks Road/Mill Road junction, turning right into Mill Road can't be easily gotten to from the cycle lane if turning right, and overtaking both lanes of cars is often the best option. On the other hand, if there's no safe option, I'll join the line of cars.

The annoying thing about cycling in Cambridge in such a situation is that the traffic lights often won't see a cyclist, and will turn red again before you get into position to go through. So you have to go through the whole brake/get your breath/accelerate routine again (or just go through the lights on red, but obviously that is Wrong).

[sillytrippy.livejournal.com]

I'm saying that there doesn't seem to be a concept of polite queuing. People queue because there's no way past the queue, not out of some etiquette.

I also feel confused as to what possible purpose there is in the car making that overtake, whereas I see major benefits for cyclists in keeping going whenever (safely) possible.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I've barely driven for so long, I've not really had an opinion.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

LOL. Thanks. Probably doesn't make a practical difference, but... :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

"The more pictures of bicycles we paint on the road or pavement, the more green and pro-cycling we are. Get your paintbrush and jump to it!".

:)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

Point 2 is missing the point (well, unless you're uber-considerate)

:) Yeah. I wasn't definitely going to do, but it would be good to at least get feedback from other drivers' perspectives, and know if I'm doing something because it's best for me, best for everyone else, or both.

It seems like at many junctions any option is very annoying to anyone driving, so I feel guilty whichever I do. (Unless I just dismount and go round, following the "cyclists shouldn't exist at all" school of thought.) But if I'm convinced that nothing I do could be better, I can feel justified in whichever I do :)

[gareth-rees.livejournal.com]

What is the intended use if the cyclist approaches the traffic lights behind three cars?

You have to use your skill and judgement and decide for yourself. You can choose to wait in the queue behind the three cars or you can undertake or overtake the three cars and wait in the reservoir.

which would delay the drivers least?

It's sweet of you to worry about this.

Depends on the width of the road and the traffic conditions. If the road is wide enough (or traffic is light enough) for the cars to easily overtake you after the junction, then it makes no difference to them what you do. If the road is so narrow that they won't be able to overtake you, then if you move ahead of them and wait in the reservoir then you might hold them up after the junction. (But then again, if traffic is that heavy then maybe it won't actually make any difference in this case either since if they were in front of you all it would mean is that they would reach the next queue of cars a few seconds later.)

I suggest you try it both ways and see what the outcomes are. If you often find yourself at the head of a queue of motor vehicles, then you are causing delay. If this rarely or never happens, or happens but only for a few seconds before they all overtake you, then don't worry about it.

What do you do?

Mostly I go to the head of the queue by whatever route is safe.

I certainly disagree with the idea that cyclists have any kind of duty of politeness to wait in line. To not unreasonably hold up other road users, yes. But waiting in line for the sake of it when it will make no practical difference to anyone seems pointless to me. It's not like pushing into a queue at a shop.

(This DFT leaflet from between 1993 and 1995 provides some interesting early perspective on the design of ASLs.)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

(This DFT leaflet from between 1993 and 1995 provides some interesting early perspective on the design of ASLs.)

Thanks, that's really interesting.

It's sweet of you to worry about this.

:) Thank you. At a minimum I don't want to inconvenience people without any cause, and I'd rather not inconvenience people at all if it's little trouble to me.

I suggest you try it both ways and see what the outcomes are.

I've certainly experienced both. I'm thinking mainly of the crossing Milton Road into Greenend Road from King's Hedge's Road, as I often do coming home from work, when the left-turn lane is busy.

Probably, if the queue is car, car, car, cycle, car, then the fourth car just misses the lights whatever the cyclist does, and the cyclist can either overtake, and delay the first three cars by the length of time it takes to cross the junction, or stay behind, and miss the lights.

(Although, come to think of it, the delay may be less than that, if a cyclist can accelerate faster to start with, and can start from the advance box without having to wait behind the cars. Maybe that would let the fourth car pass the lights?)

[gareth-rees.livejournal.com]

I use that junction a lot (mostly turning right from Kings Hedges Road into Milton Road, but all the other movements from time to time). In your case (going straight across from KHR to GER) if you're really concerned about not holding anyone up you could move slightly to the left once you're out of the path of left-turning traffic and allow motor traffic to overtake you in the junction -- I think the junction is wide enough to do this reasonably safely.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I sometimes do do that when I'm at the front anyway. It's definitely an option. If there's just one or two cars, they can generally pass (or turn right) in the width of the junction. But it feels a bit dodgy, like it's not good practice because if there's more than two cars, then you have to squeeze through the traffic lights on the other side, really close to a car coming from behind. (Or be stranded in the junction when the Milton Road southbound traffic starts, or pull out in front of the car[1] before anyone had a chance to overtake)

[1] I feel no-one considers, when wondering whether to make room for someone to pull out in front of them, if they only pulled in to the left in the first place to let people pass. Which is understandable, but means pulling in to the left means you then get stuck waiting for a gap :)

[pizza.maircrosoft.com (from livejournal.com)]

ah. take two little clicker things that timestamp clicks (do such things exist?), and stand by the lights - hm, three little clicker things - and click one of them when the lights change, one of them when a car goes through the lights, and one of them when a bicycle does. Spend about six hours collecting data, each day for a week, then feed it all to a computer and generate a model of accelerations and thingies.

three clickers would be inconvenient as most people only have two hands. perhaps there is a better way. maybe a laptop (with lots of battery) and a little recording program and three designated keys.

[pizza.maircrosoft.com (from livejournal.com)]

painting bicycles on the road, at least in some places, is intended to remind drivers to be alert to the presence of cyclists on that road - not take corners too tightly, and so on.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Good point.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

LOL. I seriously considered doing that for a few hours, and just getting some informal estimates of how many cars normally go through the lights, and what normally happens if there's a bike.

[pizza.maircrosoft.com (from livejournal.com)]

fun for all the family. do it with livredor when she is visiting.