Magic pen changed my life!

[jack]

I've recently made a bit of an effort to become organised, to augment my (A) being getting up at 9.00ish[1], (B) wasting less or indeed no time at work (C) slowly achieving my todo list[2] (D) thinking about where my life should go[3] (E) spodding hopefully more interestingly and (F) the aforementioned personality transplant :)

Fear my being a man now, my son! :)

I've redone my email folders a bit, so they're more hierarchical, and separated out the pooh and tolkien folders into 'chat' and 'committee' and 'announcements'. nakedtoes and sonicdrift can be squeeful and flattered that they've joined the elect club of people who have a folder of their own[4] :) Tim and Justin *would* but since *most* of the emails from one are also to the other, they are for the moment still co-existing in "timjustin" though for some equality I reversed the order.

I do, in fact, want email with categories, so something can be in both 'tim' AND 'justin'. It'd also be useful for emails from Foo AND poohsoc, or from Foo AND about house-finding, or whatever. But I like having IMAP. Can anyone advise me what system I should be using? Ideally I'd like email available from a server by both imap and webmail, and sortable into categories. I won't go much further, since I think that's still currently unacheivable. Gmail? Any other service? Download to outlook? Write an imap wrapper for gmail?

I've bought a shiny USB pen drive thingy[5] and moved all my personal files from home and work onto it. It's great having my todo list there where-ever I go, which has been a sticking point in my having one before. I've also reorganises a bit so I can find stuff; now my main personal folders are: fic_mine; fic_other's; gakked (quotes, downloaded pics, etc.); life (finance, etc.); poetry (not large, but enough to clutter up spod); pooh (mainly minutes); roleplaying; tech (stored settings, encrypted passwords, etc); spod (partially finished posts, articles, emails, poetry (but not any more), thoughts, plans, todos, etc).

[1] Today I woke up at 8.50 and got up without prompting by alarm, but I was *that* sanguine about going to work :) Yesterday I did some geek shopping first (see para 3) and woke up at 8.00, like I do at Xmas :)
[2] Bike very soon, promise. And shortly car, maybe.
[3] I think for satisfaction I need to acheived something, but aren't sure if this should be 'well paid job' or 'family' or something more innovative.
[4] Later I'm going to spod an amusing list of pseudo-definitions of friends, of which this is one :)
[5] There was one that was a wireless connector AND a pen drive. Isn't that so cool? If not useful to me :)

Comments

[aldabra]

Gmail's good for searching by arbitrarily many criteria. This may mean it doesn't support folders; I haven't needed to know 8-) And I don't know what IMAP is either...

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

Yes, from what I've understood gmail criteria are equivalent to folders, ie. if you assign one criterion to each email it's the same[1], but you can also assign more. But I've never actually *used* it.

IMAP is where you use an email client on your local computer to manipulate the mail which stays on the server. It sucks mightily on dialup, but it's good because (1) you get a proper interface, not just webmail[2] and (2) you can access the email from anywhere.

[1] Insert complicated and boring spraff about what assignment of criteria would be equivalent to subfolders.
[2] Though it's always getting better, it's still not as easy.

[fanf]

You could just save the messages in multiple folders; however metadata updates to the message (e.g. when you have read it) aren't shared. It's probably possible to abuse IMAP so that the server treats folders as keywords, but it's probably more kosher to do so via an extension. I believe a suitable ones are in the works.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-imapext-annotate-12.txt
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-imapext-list-extensions-11.txt

[aldabra]

Ah, possibly "criteria" is a technical term 8-) What I mean is I can type "crocodile" and it gives me all my mail which mentions crocodiles, so I don't have to remember who I was talking about them with. I don't have to have foreseen that I might want to search for crocodiles in the future. I haven't yet had a mail that I needed to track down that I couldn't find by content. (It doesn't always work first time, but that's typically because I've forgotten who sent it and so folders wouldn't work either...)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Ah, sorry, I was misunderstanding a bit. I don't know if it's the official google term, but I've seen it used in that specific sense somewhere.

I really, really do get emails that can't be searched for easily; 'to' and 'from' addresses can go so far, but some threads don't have easily differentiated words, so I would like folders or something too.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Multiple folders could work, but I'm a bit leery of it.

Ooh, great! I was hoping someone would do this sooner or later, and am glad someone is. Thanks.

Hacking together a substandard version of that myself would be an amusing option, but I'm not sure I'd trust it.

[satanicsocks.livejournal.com]

Adding multiple folders to an email is called labelling in Gmail.

I use it all the time and it really works for me, plus the searchability of the Gmail interface and its consistency across Windows, Linux and other people's computers.

While you can POP it you can't IMAP and the metadata is part of the web interface rather than the mail database. So, er, not quite what you're looking for. But gmail changed the way I handle email. For the better I might add.

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

Squee!

And huh. You've had your own folder in my system since undergrad! (though now you have two, in a confusing twist of events)

I think you should achieve goldfish. Or maybe some of those tropical ones?

[emperor]

VM does virtual folders, which are an excellent thing (and sound like they'd solve your problem - you could create a virtual "tim" folder, a virtual "justin" folder, and indeed them combine them to a virtual "tim" AND "justin" folder.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I suppose, yes, IMAP would be tricky when mail is accessed in such a different way.

Though come to think of it, should/is metadata be in the header anyway? We should be able to specify keywords for messages, shouldn't we, that automatically become labels?

Maybe I will just give in and use gmail. And least with cantab forwarding is easy.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

As I patiently explained to T and J, it's not an insult, it just means I didn't (until recently) have many emails that were just from you, rather than fitting into a larger group like 'old trinity friends', since then being an singular folder actually makes it harder to find things.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Acheiving goldfish sounds appropriately fun and surreal! :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Yes, that does sound like what I want.

Unfortunately my secret shame is that I've never learnt to use emacs OR vi :)

[satanicsocks.livejournal.com]

I forward it to a different account as well as gmail, for archive

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

Plus, its humanitarian. Or, friendly to animals at least.

It does look v gross if you don't change their water suitably often though

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

I'm not at all offended. I tend to be a bit anal about filing stuff. (Well, some stuff. Not bank statements so much, unfortunately. Must put that on to-do list)

BTW, I got dressed! Yay!

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Goes without saying :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Well, not really, I'd be supporting the goldfish breeding market.

Actually, it *would* be nice, but I wasn't sure why you brought it up just then :) I might even like a more active pet, but (a) I'm not allowed and (b) the responsibility is too much for me, I'd worry I wouldn't live up to it -- I know I'd be as good as most people, but I'd be too scared of what's happen if I got it wrong. Which doesn't bode well for my ever being a parent :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm *a bit* anal. Just not anal enough :) I started using email regularly slowly, so my folders of the time grew rather than were designed :)

And yes, it's funny how bank statements always come last on the to-organise list, I'm just the same :)

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

Pedant!

I was trying to think of something zany, as opposed to mortgage / family. Goldfish seemed appropriate.

If you're ever in the situation where you can have a pet, cats are quite independent. Much more so than dogs. I know what you mean about the parent thing - it's terrifying. It all comes back to that TPratchett joke about how parents should have to pass more than just the physical :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Oh, ok, I suppose it would be pleasent to look after something; but the worry of supporting an abusive market is a rather real one, it's not *just* pedantry :)

No, I like it. It just threw me for a bit, because it *was* something I'd like to achieve, but I didn't see how you know that :) AAAAAGHHHH! Don't even say mortgage, organising a bank account is still difficult :) But I suppose everyone else manages.

Yep. I even have a cat sometimes; he's a neighbours who visits me :)

Indeed. Very eek. But all the same, better one of us than the people who'd fail *abysmally*. Sometimes in life you have to accept that doing the best you can is better than not taking on the commitment, but it's still very scary.

[mair_in_grenderich]

opera's mail system does pop, don't know about imap, and it does 'labels' (and did before gmail). but whether it's what you'd want to use ... oh, and opera is not free, like a death row prisoner or a battery hen, and you would feel evil using it. personally, I like it. and I eat chicken. but not death row prisoners. although there's no reason why we might as well not, really. unless their families mind.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I may investigate. I would be willing to pay for something that *did* do everything I wanted.

It seems pessimistic that I could have a system that uses labels with a client AND webmail, maybe I need give up on that.

Though come to think of it, it'd just be a matter of grepping for a keword in the header, it *should* be easy to implement, right? :)

[mair_in_grenderich]

oh, it's free in that sense, just not in the open-source sense. except for the ads at the top, though there possibly are ways of working around those. so you can at least investigate it without paying, and decide in a few months if it's cool enough to pay for.

[mair_in_grenderich]

never be scared to learn new things :D

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Oh, ok! I assumed they'd changed something since I last used it. I'll see what it can do, it sounds like it might be a solution.

Or, come to think of it, thunderbird must do it by now, mustn't it? That *would* solve everything, wouldn't it?

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I'm not any more, not since my new resolutions post :)

I will freely admit my ignorant and newbie status, and sup knowledge from my friends as ichor from gods. I just haven't got round to it yet, and was notionally going to fix my email before fixing my unixness[1].

[1] Sounds painful, doesn't it? :)

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

Is the goldfish market abusive? Tropical fish yes, but goldfish?

Sorry

Neighbours' cats are nice. you can play with them, but have the right to throw them out later.

Sometimes in life you have to accept that doing the best you can is better than not taking on the commitment, but it's still very scary.

You've become very profound recently :)

[angelofthenorth.livejournal.com]

I have gmail. It works. I love it.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe not. The point is I'd feel obliged to find out first. Libby (Dad's dog) was one who just snuck up to us outside a pub from being stray and when unable to find her owner we adopted, which is a nicely satisfying way of doing things, though you miss out on the whole puppy thing :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Well, I've always said things that I happen to think sound profound :) I *have* been organising and blogging more of my thoughts recently :)

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

I didn't know your dad had a dog. Is that since you left for uni? How cute!

Missing out on the puppy thing also (hopefully) means missing out on the house training thing - there are benefits :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Not at all, I almost grew up with her :) but she died years ago :(

LOL. Yes, I can see the advantages. I don't think I'd be especialy good at training, I'd keep wanting to use measure space metaphors, which would probably go over it's head :)

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

Sweetie, measure space metaphors would go over my head.

Did we touch MSs briefly in Analysis II after metric spaces, or am I on the wrong page entirely?

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Thus demonstrating that *whatever* a man is talking about, up to and including measure space and puppies, a woman can come along and accuse him of calling her a dog :) This is why tact doesn't work :)

Anal II? I really can't remember any more. I think that would be a logical place, a lot of it is about extending the concept of integration, but I was just using it as an example, I'm too hazy to say for sure.

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

a woman can come along and accuse him of calling her a dog :)

OK, I wouldn't have done until I read that comment. Huh!

Oh. Integration. *R is horrified as the memories start flooding back, and puts a lid on them firmly* Huh!

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Oops :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I thought you said you were re-reading some maths? After all, whatever bollobash might say, integration is just clever ways of doing a REALLY BIG summation :)

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

uh huh

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

No, I said I was in a bad mood and I was going to. Apparently the mood wasn't bad enough :)

I know this has nothing to do with what we've been discussing, but I need to ask you - do the characters fart on the Simpsons in addition to belching, or is that gross beyond even them?

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's the sort of thing they say :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Ah, fair enough. The post about ladders and kinetic energy made me wonder if you had.

I really can't remember, I'm afraid. Have you tried google (carefully)?

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

You're the guy who keeps leaving work early to go and watch them. Fat lot of good you are!

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

They certainly *mention* farts. BTW, why on earth do you want to know? :)

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to write sap!fic ;) Don't worry, I've rewritten the beginning - we're in Jack POV now.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

"Sap!fic"? What's that, and what does it have to do with simpson farts?

Yours,

Puzzled of cambridge.

[nakedtoes.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I'll stop being deliberately obtuse.

I want to write sappy Sam/Jack fic - because I haven't yet, and I want to see if I can do it - and they're watching the Simpsons. In my head Sam doesn't really find them funny, and she's moaning about them and how gross they are to herself.

Except the plot bunny came to me when I was washing my hair yesterday but I couldn't write it then because I had to make dinner, and now the sap won't flow :(

Yours,

Grumpy of london