FAQ: Can I put ham on challah?
May. 16th, 2014 01:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackWhat's the story with challah?
It's surprisingly simple. The history is comparatively short, and the customs are fairly similar amongst different traditions, and it doesn't make a difference whether you're in the diaspora or in Israel.
Really?
No, that was all a lie. It all starts in ancient hebrew some time after the exodus from egypt...
Uh, actually can we skip the ancient history?
OK. Up to five hundred years ago in eastern europe...
This is skipping the history?
Yes! This is skipping thousands of years of history.
Look, can I maybe find out how challah is used nowadays.
OK.
As a non-jew, what actually is challah?
Challah is a rich bread made with egg, where the dough is plaited together. It's traditionally used as the "bread" part of jewish prayers before meals, especially on the sabbath and on a few other festivals. But it's a common jewish tradition even if you're not observant.
Is it nice?
Yes, definitely. I also heartily recommend bagels, matza-lasagna, latkes, etc. I'm not sure about gefilte fish.
Is it ok for non-jews to eat it?
Yes, definitely. It's basically just a nice sort of bread.
Even at jewish meals?
Yes, definitely.
Is it ok to make it myself?
Yes, definitely.
Anything I shouldn't do
No, not really.
Is it ok to eat it with ham?
Yes! If you eat meat anyway, my jewish friends say there's nothing specifically wrong with ham-on-challah. Knock yourself out :)
Is it ok to eat it with ham and cheese?
Yes! Non-jews are specifically not supposed to follow all that stuff.
Is it ok if I pray to turn it into human flesh and then eat it?
*looks shifty* Uh, well. Empirically, you won't actually be struck by lightning. But you will make jewish people feel uncomfortable, it would be much better not to.
What happened to anything?
OK, ok, I forgot that one. But it turned out ok.
What about sacrificing it to different gods?
Um, I don't actually know, but I think it might be polite not to.
But other than that, anything's ok?
I think so. Oh...
Yes?
Sephardi tradition and some ashkenazi traditions say not to cut challah with a knife, because sabbath is not a time for weapons. It's specifically designed to pull apart easily. I don't think anyone will mind if you cut it when you're by yourself, but it would be nice to check if you're eating with any jewish people.
But anything else is ok?
Well, anything that would be normal for food. I wouldn't make a sword out of it. But that's more of a "common sense" thing than a "jewish" thing.
OK, and how to jewish people use it?
Partly just as nice bread.
But for meals (for people I know, mostly only on the sabbath, or only on big family festivals), you're supposed to have two loaves of bread and some wine, for which you say the prayers for bread and wine.
Bread and wine?
"staple food" and "staple drink" would be a more in-spirit translation. IIRC the some of the word in hewbrew which came to mean bread used to be used for multiple staple foods?
What does this have to do with challah?
People traditionally use nice bread. Often challah. Although anything nice-ish is also common.
OK, ok, a little history. Has the name "Challah" undergone synecdoche?
Yes. Very astute! When making bread, you're supposed to throw a small piece in the fire, in memory of giving the first loaf of a batch to the temple in biblical times. This piece is called "challah", but the name came to refer to this particular sort of bread.
And where did this sort of bread come from?
Eastern europe in the last 500 years. There are many similar non-jewish breads in different countries. Some use milk instead of egg (but challah doesn't because then jews can't mix it with meat).
Both challah and related breads come in lots of different shapes too.
Does that mean Sephardi challah is different?
Yes. I think it normally doesn't have egg. And I think it's not usually braided, but I'm not sure about that? There seems to be more modern mixing of the traditions.
OK, and the older history. Do you actually know about that or were you just bluffing?
Well, I read about it on a few websites, but actually, I still can't get it straight. Can anyone help?
I think the timeline is something like:
1. Post-exodus, "challah" means "cake" or "loaf"? And you were commanded to give the first (ie best) cake of a batch to the temple, for ritual purposes, and for the priest to eat, as described in detail in Numbers? Is that translation and ritual right, or have I conflated different traditions?
2. After the destruction of the temple, people burned a small piece (olive-sized) of bread, in remembrance of the earlier custom, as described in talmud? (Or had a custom of burning a small bit and attached the explanation of connection to temple sacrifices later?) Which came to be called "challah"?
3. People are supposed to have "nice" bread for sabbath?
4. In eastern europe, it became common to make plaited egg-bread for the sabbath.
5. This bread became associated with the name "challah"? And later on, most people only make a challah-offering from sabbath bread (after all most people don't make bread as a staple food any more)?
But I'm not sure what's from torah, what was still common in the first millennium, what's from mishna, and what's from later talmud. And not sure which bits were already common in early AD, and which bits only came later in eastern europe, and which bits are even more modern? And which bits people are theoretically supposed to do, and which bits are what people actually did?
Can anyone fill me in?
It's surprisingly simple. The history is comparatively short, and the customs are fairly similar amongst different traditions, and it doesn't make a difference whether you're in the diaspora or in Israel.
Really?
No, that was all a lie. It all starts in ancient hebrew some time after the exodus from egypt...
Uh, actually can we skip the ancient history?
OK. Up to five hundred years ago in eastern europe...
This is skipping the history?
Yes! This is skipping thousands of years of history.
Look, can I maybe find out how challah is used nowadays.
OK.
As a non-jew, what actually is challah?
Challah is a rich bread made with egg, where the dough is plaited together. It's traditionally used as the "bread" part of jewish prayers before meals, especially on the sabbath and on a few other festivals. But it's a common jewish tradition even if you're not observant.
Is it nice?
Yes, definitely. I also heartily recommend bagels, matza-lasagna, latkes, etc. I'm not sure about gefilte fish.
Is it ok for non-jews to eat it?
Yes, definitely. It's basically just a nice sort of bread.
Even at jewish meals?
Yes, definitely.
Is it ok to make it myself?
Yes, definitely.
Anything I shouldn't do
No, not really.
Is it ok to eat it with ham?
Yes! If you eat meat anyway, my jewish friends say there's nothing specifically wrong with ham-on-challah. Knock yourself out :)
Is it ok to eat it with ham and cheese?
Yes! Non-jews are specifically not supposed to follow all that stuff.
Is it ok if I pray to turn it into human flesh and then eat it?
*looks shifty* Uh, well. Empirically, you won't actually be struck by lightning. But you will make jewish people feel uncomfortable, it would be much better not to.
What happened to anything?
OK, ok, I forgot that one. But it turned out ok.
What about sacrificing it to different gods?
Um, I don't actually know, but I think it might be polite not to.
But other than that, anything's ok?
I think so. Oh...
Yes?
Sephardi tradition and some ashkenazi traditions say not to cut challah with a knife, because sabbath is not a time for weapons. It's specifically designed to pull apart easily. I don't think anyone will mind if you cut it when you're by yourself, but it would be nice to check if you're eating with any jewish people.
But anything else is ok?
Well, anything that would be normal for food. I wouldn't make a sword out of it. But that's more of a "common sense" thing than a "jewish" thing.
OK, and how to jewish people use it?
Partly just as nice bread.
But for meals (for people I know, mostly only on the sabbath, or only on big family festivals), you're supposed to have two loaves of bread and some wine, for which you say the prayers for bread and wine.
Bread and wine?
"staple food" and "staple drink" would be a more in-spirit translation. IIRC the some of the word in hewbrew which came to mean bread used to be used for multiple staple foods?
What does this have to do with challah?
People traditionally use nice bread. Often challah. Although anything nice-ish is also common.
OK, ok, a little history. Has the name "Challah" undergone synecdoche?
Yes. Very astute! When making bread, you're supposed to throw a small piece in the fire, in memory of giving the first loaf of a batch to the temple in biblical times. This piece is called "challah", but the name came to refer to this particular sort of bread.
And where did this sort of bread come from?
Eastern europe in the last 500 years. There are many similar non-jewish breads in different countries. Some use milk instead of egg (but challah doesn't because then jews can't mix it with meat).
Both challah and related breads come in lots of different shapes too.
Does that mean Sephardi challah is different?
Yes. I think it normally doesn't have egg. And I think it's not usually braided, but I'm not sure about that? There seems to be more modern mixing of the traditions.
OK, and the older history. Do you actually know about that or were you just bluffing?
Well, I read about it on a few websites, but actually, I still can't get it straight. Can anyone help?
I think the timeline is something like:
1. Post-exodus, "challah" means "cake" or "loaf"? And you were commanded to give the first (ie best) cake of a batch to the temple, for ritual purposes, and for the priest to eat, as described in detail in Numbers? Is that translation and ritual right, or have I conflated different traditions?
2. After the destruction of the temple, people burned a small piece (olive-sized) of bread, in remembrance of the earlier custom, as described in talmud? (Or had a custom of burning a small bit and attached the explanation of connection to temple sacrifices later?) Which came to be called "challah"?
3. People are supposed to have "nice" bread for sabbath?
4. In eastern europe, it became common to make plaited egg-bread for the sabbath.
5. This bread became associated with the name "challah"? And later on, most people only make a challah-offering from sabbath bread (after all most people don't make bread as a staple food any more)?
But I'm not sure what's from torah, what was still common in the first millennium, what's from mishna, and what's from later talmud. And not sure which bits were already common in early AD, and which bits only came later in eastern europe, and which bits are even more modern? And which bits people are theoretically supposed to do, and which bits are what people actually did?
Can anyone fill me in?