HPMOR reread thoughts
Feb. 21st, 2016 10:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackHarry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is definitely flawed, but the parts that are interesting I find really interesting, so I keep coming back to it every so often. Apparently when I read the ending, and again, I was still confused about what was *supposed* to have been revealed.
It's also really, really long, so be warned. Apparently "reading web fiction" is one of the procrastination triggers I haven't fixed, it has a perfect combination of making me feel tired, but feel like reading one more chapter would be a good way to relax...
So, what the heck was going on overall? Let me try to summarise and you can tell me what's right.
Tom Riddle I (aka Voldemort, aka Quirrel, aka several other aliases) overheard the prophecy about Harry and him destroying each other, which was similar but not quite the same as in the original books. And probably only heard about it because it was self-fulfilling. And didn't attack the prophecy head-on like original Voldemort, but tried to engineer a situation where it was fulfilled without him being harmed. But it backfired and ended up fulfilling the prophecy.
Meanwhile, Dumbledore, at the height of the war and fearing Voldemort more than ever, did something desperate: went to the hall of prophecies and listened to all of them. And he discovered that many were about some future catastrophe worse than Voldemort that might end all life in the universe. Or rather, many possible futures, most in which everyone DOES die, and some with Harry which sound very ominous but are still ambiguous.
And he decides to arrange all future events such that that is the path that comes about. It sounds like, for whatever philosophical reason, this universe naturally settles into a stable time loop, preferably one where humanity (or seers specifically) continue existing for a long long time. So possibly Dumbledore's going to the hall of prophecy was influenced by earlier prophecies. But once he does that, everything else is constantly manipulated by him.
If you reread the earlier chapters, a very very high number of the weird things Dumbledore does (eg. telling Harry to carry his father's rock) turn out to be extremely useful later, which you think is just because narratively, Harry uses the skills and items he's acquired, but it turns out, because Dumbledore knew he should do that.
It seems Dumbledore is wrong (by Harry's standards) to be accepting of death, but all his other quirks are either natural quirkiness, assumed quirkiness to hide prophecy-inspired actions, fallout from fighting the war, or prophecy-inspired actions.
Harry Potter (aka Tom Riddle II)'s amazing preciousness is a combination of:
* Tom Riddle imprinting a near-complete copy of his mind on baby Harry, which just happened to be ridiculously high-achieving to start with
* Possibly including some learned experience, not just innate potential?
* Prophecy-manipulation by Dumbledore to bring Harry to the point where he could defeat Voldemort, be bound by a vow to not destroy the world, and have the skills and knowledge to make mankind outlast the solar system
Over the last year, all Riddle's plans have been to acquire the philosopher's stone, primarily by befriending Harry with the intention to use him for that, and to avert any of the original prophecy about them destroying each other. I think (?) he did genuinely enjoy teaching, and genuinely became fond of Harry. But all the time he was playing Harry, manipulating events where he could save his life and appear to care about him.
And completely made up the "dying" thing (at least, on that short timeframe) so Harry would help him get the Philosopher's Stone.
At some point, he also learned one or more of the prophecies about Harry's ambiguous-but-ominous future, and determined killing him carefully was the only way to prevent all life (including his hopefully-immortal self) being destroyed in future. However, all of that was engineered by the prophecies and Dumbledore somehow, because only a future where Voldemort forced harry to swear a vow to NOT destroy the universe, but then Harry defeated him after, could lead to one where everyone survived...
Other questions
When Harry guesses the Comed Tea appears to cause a spit-take, by instead anticipating when something ridiculous is about to happen and causing the owner to feel an impulse to drink just before then: Firstly, why doesn't he TEST that by trying to drink at some other time? Secondly, why doesn't he try to HARNESS that to see the future?
When Tom Riddle studies at the martial arts dojo in human guise, and then (apparently) returns in Voldemort's guise, why did he return as Voldemort? Presumably he wasn't genuinely trying to force lessons out of the master. Was he deliberately building Voldemort's reputation as too-quick to anger? Did he want to kill everyone to remove any witnesses to him having learned the martial art? Or was it just a mild continuity goof, that Yudkowsky forgot it didn't work if Tom Riddle posing as human and posing as Voldemort were the same person.
It's also really, really long, so be warned. Apparently "reading web fiction" is one of the procrastination triggers I haven't fixed, it has a perfect combination of making me feel tired, but feel like reading one more chapter would be a good way to relax...
So, what the heck was going on overall? Let me try to summarise and you can tell me what's right.
Tom Riddle I (aka Voldemort, aka Quirrel, aka several other aliases) overheard the prophecy about Harry and him destroying each other, which was similar but not quite the same as in the original books. And probably only heard about it because it was self-fulfilling. And didn't attack the prophecy head-on like original Voldemort, but tried to engineer a situation where it was fulfilled without him being harmed. But it backfired and ended up fulfilling the prophecy.
Meanwhile, Dumbledore, at the height of the war and fearing Voldemort more than ever, did something desperate: went to the hall of prophecies and listened to all of them. And he discovered that many were about some future catastrophe worse than Voldemort that might end all life in the universe. Or rather, many possible futures, most in which everyone DOES die, and some with Harry which sound very ominous but are still ambiguous.
And he decides to arrange all future events such that that is the path that comes about. It sounds like, for whatever philosophical reason, this universe naturally settles into a stable time loop, preferably one where humanity (or seers specifically) continue existing for a long long time. So possibly Dumbledore's going to the hall of prophecy was influenced by earlier prophecies. But once he does that, everything else is constantly manipulated by him.
If you reread the earlier chapters, a very very high number of the weird things Dumbledore does (eg. telling Harry to carry his father's rock) turn out to be extremely useful later, which you think is just because narratively, Harry uses the skills and items he's acquired, but it turns out, because Dumbledore knew he should do that.
It seems Dumbledore is wrong (by Harry's standards) to be accepting of death, but all his other quirks are either natural quirkiness, assumed quirkiness to hide prophecy-inspired actions, fallout from fighting the war, or prophecy-inspired actions.
Harry Potter (aka Tom Riddle II)'s amazing preciousness is a combination of:
* Tom Riddle imprinting a near-complete copy of his mind on baby Harry, which just happened to be ridiculously high-achieving to start with
* Possibly including some learned experience, not just innate potential?
* Prophecy-manipulation by Dumbledore to bring Harry to the point where he could defeat Voldemort, be bound by a vow to not destroy the world, and have the skills and knowledge to make mankind outlast the solar system
Over the last year, all Riddle's plans have been to acquire the philosopher's stone, primarily by befriending Harry with the intention to use him for that, and to avert any of the original prophecy about them destroying each other. I think (?) he did genuinely enjoy teaching, and genuinely became fond of Harry. But all the time he was playing Harry, manipulating events where he could save his life and appear to care about him.
And completely made up the "dying" thing (at least, on that short timeframe) so Harry would help him get the Philosopher's Stone.
At some point, he also learned one or more of the prophecies about Harry's ambiguous-but-ominous future, and determined killing him carefully was the only way to prevent all life (including his hopefully-immortal self) being destroyed in future. However, all of that was engineered by the prophecies and Dumbledore somehow, because only a future where Voldemort forced harry to swear a vow to NOT destroy the universe, but then Harry defeated him after, could lead to one where everyone survived...
Other questions
When Harry guesses the Comed Tea appears to cause a spit-take, by instead anticipating when something ridiculous is about to happen and causing the owner to feel an impulse to drink just before then: Firstly, why doesn't he TEST that by trying to drink at some other time? Secondly, why doesn't he try to HARNESS that to see the future?
When Tom Riddle studies at the martial arts dojo in human guise, and then (apparently) returns in Voldemort's guise, why did he return as Voldemort? Presumably he wasn't genuinely trying to force lessons out of the master. Was he deliberately building Voldemort's reputation as too-quick to anger? Did he want to kill everyone to remove any witnesses to him having learned the martial art? Or was it just a mild continuity goof, that Yudkowsky forgot it didn't work if Tom Riddle posing as human and posing as Voldemort were the same person.