![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackOK, so before the bizarre misunderstandings in my previous post, I had been going to repost question which I thought was an interesting logic puzzle in its own right.
You have five bags of holding. One contains a fabulous treasure. Two contain liches who can't escape until you open the bag. Two contain nothing.
You have a spell which tells you something about the result of a course of action you propose. (This description is slightly altered from the functionality of the original spell to make the puzzle work, feel free to ask for clarification as needed.)
"Weal" for good result (eg. treasure, no liches)
"Woe" for bad result (eg. 1+ lich, no treasure)
"Weal and Woe" for a good and bad result (eg. treasure and also lich)
"Nothing" for a result of no particular good or bad (eg. open no bags or only open empty bags)
Puzzle
What's the minimum number of castings of the spell needed? (I think 3 is easy and 1 is impossible, so basically, can you do 2?)
Clarifications
The course of action has to be 30 minutes or less.
We don't have specifics on how you define the course of action, ask if it needs to be more explicit.
Assume you can include other results in the plan if they help, eg. "if this bad contains nothing, I stab myself in the leg", without necessarily needing to follow through. (This is slightly more generous than the original spell.)
Assume you don't include the castings of further divination spells within the scope of the course of action considered by casting the first spell.
Follow-ups (may be unnecessary depending on the best solution to the original)
If you only have one casting, what's the greatest chance you can give yourself of finding the treasure whilst finding no liches.
The original restrictions of the spell say that if you cast it four times in a day (ignored for the basic puzzle), the second, third and fourth times have a 25%, 50% and 75% chance of giving a random answer. What's the highest chance you can give yourself of finding the treasure and no liches in up to four castings with those failure chances.
Previously we assumed you couldn't create a paradox. If you *can*, and causing a paradox causes the spell to fail to give an answer in a way distinct from "nothing", can you reduce the number of castings?
If you *can* ask about a course of action including further divination spells, does that help?
Does the answer generalise to a larger number of bags (assuming 1 treasure, N liches and N nothing)
ETA: Fix formatting.
You have five bags of holding. One contains a fabulous treasure. Two contain liches who can't escape until you open the bag. Two contain nothing.
You have a spell which tells you something about the result of a course of action you propose. (This description is slightly altered from the functionality of the original spell to make the puzzle work, feel free to ask for clarification as needed.)
"Weal" for good result (eg. treasure, no liches)
"Woe" for bad result (eg. 1+ lich, no treasure)
"Weal and Woe" for a good and bad result (eg. treasure and also lich)
"Nothing" for a result of no particular good or bad (eg. open no bags or only open empty bags)
Puzzle
What's the minimum number of castings of the spell needed? (I think 3 is easy and 1 is impossible, so basically, can you do 2?)
Clarifications
The course of action has to be 30 minutes or less.
We don't have specifics on how you define the course of action, ask if it needs to be more explicit.
Assume you can include other results in the plan if they help, eg. "if this bad contains nothing, I stab myself in the leg", without necessarily needing to follow through. (This is slightly more generous than the original spell.)
Assume you don't include the castings of further divination spells within the scope of the course of action considered by casting the first spell.
Follow-ups (may be unnecessary depending on the best solution to the original)
If you only have one casting, what's the greatest chance you can give yourself of finding the treasure whilst finding no liches.
The original restrictions of the spell say that if you cast it four times in a day (ignored for the basic puzzle), the second, third and fourth times have a 25%, 50% and 75% chance of giving a random answer. What's the highest chance you can give yourself of finding the treasure and no liches in up to four castings with those failure chances.
Previously we assumed you couldn't create a paradox. If you *can*, and causing a paradox causes the spell to fail to give an answer in a way distinct from "nothing", can you reduce the number of castings?
If you *can* ask about a course of action including further divination spells, does that help?
Does the answer generalise to a larger number of bags (assuming 1 treasure, N liches and N nothing)
ETA: Fix formatting.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-14 04:29 pm (UTC)Orpnhfr bs gur cerfrapr bs rzcgl obkrf, ng yrnfg bar bs gur sbhe cynaf "Obk bar", "Obk gjb, vs gung'f rzcgl gura obk svir", "Obk guerr, vs gung'f rzcgl gura obk svir" naq "Obk sbhe, vs gung'f rzcgl gura obk svir" vf thnenagrrq gb jbex. Fb gurer ner bayl sbhe cbffvovyvgvrf gung arrq gb or qvfgvathvfurq. V qba'g xabj vs vg'f npghnyyl cbffvoyr gb qvfgvathvfu gurz gubhtu.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-14 04:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-06-14 06:17 pm (UTC)Bar vf vapyvarq gb znxr gur fvzcyr vasbezngvba-gurbergvp nethzrag: lbh'er gelvat gb qvfgvathvfu svir cbffvovyvgvrf, ohg n fvatyr fcryypnfg tvirf lbh bayl sbhe nafjref, gung'f abg rabhtu, qbar. Ohg gung vfa'g fhssvpvrag, orpnhfr vg nffhzrf lbh'er gelvat gb qvfgvathvfu gur svir cbffvoyr gernfher-ybpngvbaf, jurernf va snpg vg jbhyq or fhssvpvrag gb qvfgvathvfu sbhe _pbhefrf bs npgvba_ gung orgjrra gurz zhfg vapyhqr n jvaare. Naq gurer ner cresrpgyl tbbq pbyyrpgvbaf bs sbhe pbhefrf bs npgvba – fnl, sbhe gbgny beqref bs gur ontf, rnpu jvgu gur frznagvpf 'bcra gurz bar ol bar va guvf beqre naq fgbc jura bar vf aba-rzcgl' – bs juvpu bar zhfg rapbhagre gur gernfher orsber nal yvpu. Sbe rknzcyr, gur sbhe beqref rnpu yvfg n qvssrerag ont svefg naq gura nyy yvfg gur svsgu ont frpbaq; gura rvgure ont svir vf gernfher, va juvpu pnfr gjb beqref jvyy cvpx na rzcgl ont orsber vg naq jva, be bar bs gur bguref vf gernfher va juvpu pnfr fbzr beqre jvyy cvpx vg svefg naq jva.
Fb vs vg'f abg vzcbffvoyr va bar pnfg ol cher vasbezngvba gurbel, jr unir gb hfr fbzr zber fhogyr ernfbavat nobhg gur cnegvphyne sbezf bs dhrel jr'er nyybjrq. Naq V guvax gur xrl cbvag vf gung vs lbh'er trggvat sbhe cbffvoyr nafjref gb gur dhrel, bar bs gurz unf gb or gur 'obevat' nafjre, naq vs gung'f cbffvoyr, gura vg zhfg or orpnhfr gur cebprqher lbh'er nfxvat nobhg vf pncnoyr bs grezvangvat nsgre bcravat bayl rzcgl ontf. Va juvpu pnfr, gurer vf fbzr frg bs hc gb gjb ontf fhpu gung vs gurl ner rzcgl gura gur dhrel cebprqher jbhyq grezvangr univat abg bcrarq nal bs gur bguref – ohg gur _erfcbafr_ cebprqher zhfg pbzzvg gb bcravat gur erznvavat 3 ontf va _fbzr_ beqre, fb vs gur svefg bar bs gubfr vf n yvpu gura qbbz.
Gung, bs pbhefr, nffhzrf gung lbhe fvatyr dhrel _pna_ erghea gur nafjre 'abguvat'. Vs lbh nfx n dhrfgvba gung pna'g (r.t. bar gung cebzvfrf gb bcra n guveq ont vs gur svefg gjb ner rzcgl), gura lbh qbqtr _gung_ ceboyrz. Ohg abj lbh'er qbja gb bayl guerr pbhefrf bs npgvba, naq jvgu gung srj, vg _vf_ cbffvoyr gb cvpx n cynprzrag bs yvpurf naq gernfher gung jvyy qrsrng nal guerr ont-beqrevatf ab znggre ubj lbh genafyngr fbzr dhrel-erfcbafr vagb bar bs gurz.
Cebbs ol pnfr nanylfvf: vs gur guerr beqref qba'g unir qvfgvapg vavgvny ryrzragf gura V pna whfg yvpu gur svefg ont bs nyy bs gurz, qbar. Vs gurl qb unir qvfgvapg svefg ontf, naq bar bs gurz yvfgf bar bs gubfr fnzr guerr ontf frpbaq (jybt, gurl fgneg NO naq O naq P), gura V pna znxr N rzcgl naq yvpu O naq P, qbar. Fb gur erznvavat cbffvovyvgl vf gung ab beqre'f frpbaq ont vf gur fnzr nf nal beqre'f svefg ont, va juvpu pnfr (ntnva jybt) gurl fgneg NQ, OQ, naq rvgure PQ be PR. Va nyy pnfrf, R vf eryvnoyl cerprqrq ol P be Q be obgu, fb vs V chg gur gernfher va R naq yvpurf va P,Q gura qbar.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-14 10:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-06-15 08:56 am (UTC)V vzntvar lbh pna svk hc lbhe nethzrag, ohg guvf cneg vfa'g dhvgr gehr. Lbh pbhyq unir n cyna jurer vs lbh bcra n ont pbagnvavat gernfher va fbzr pvephzfgnapr be bgure, gura lbh whfg jnyx njnl jvgubhg gnxvat vg.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-15 11:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-06-15 02:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-06-15 02:41 pm (UTC)