Ruining Simon's Poll

[jack]

simont asked what we consider the normal order of suits. I had a nagging feeling that it had something to do with tarot, which Piers Anthony has exposed me to too much, and finally tracked down the source of the reading.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_308.html

The Straight Dope is normally but not always reliable, stating clearly what's fact and what's opinion. I'm disturbed here because he doesn't give any sources, but fwiw, he says that the suits come from the french, where each was considered to represent a class:

Clubs - peasants
Diamonds - merchants
Hearts/Cups - clergy
Spades/Swords - nobility

The order isn't specified, but it seems plausible to me that that would be the right order.

Does anyone want to look it up and see (i) if this source is correct and (ii) if the order comes from there as well? I can't be bothered right now.

ETA: It's apparently different to the Tarot order: http://simont.livejournal.com/142192.html?thread=847728#t847728

PS. What tag should this come under?

Comments

[despotliz.livejournal.com]

I order them diamonds, spades, hearts, clubs. Because diamonds look like zero, spades have one point, hearts have two bumps, and clubs have three.

This system is the one I learnt from playing too many drinking games as a youthful undergrad, and appears to be followed by no one else at all.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Wikipedia says "ninety-nine" does that!

[despotliz.livejournal.com]

Yes, I learnt the order of suits while playing a variant of ninety-nine which uses smaller hands but the same bidding system.

[sunflowerinrain.livejournal.com]

I order them the same way because that's how I was shown as a child, though I've never looked at the origins. Now I'm curious!

[miss-next.livejournal.com]

I am familiar with the standard order, but nonetheless, in the various forms of patience I occasionally devise, I have one of my own: spades, clubs, diamonds, hearts (this order being ascending, as yours is). Moreover, rather than the standard hearts/spades, diamonds/clubs pairings, I tend to match hearts with clubs and diamonds with spades.

There's no reason for this other than simple aesthetic preference. I don't like spades.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I find spades slightly intimidating, but that makes them obviously top dog to me :)

[naath.livejournal.com]

C/D/H/S is *alphabetical*. Which is usefull.

[angoel.livejournal.com]

Heart, Spade, Diamond, Club is clearly correct because it's alphabetical in the last letter.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

One can be correct?

[sonicdrift.livejournal.com]

Hearts should obviously always come first :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

What's that? Is that a reference to something romantic/cariological I don't recognise?

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Hee hee. Nobility are clergy, just upside down and with a stick on.

[simont]

Alternatively, nobility have a stick up their arse whereas clergy are waving their arse in the air. Hmmm. There are endless possibilities for this metaphor.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I like these.

But in tarot, rods are a suit, so that needs to be aknowledged in the metaphor. Except, I had thought clubs = rods/wands, but sometimes rods and wands are separated, and sometimes people say rods = spades, and everyone makes up their own equivalences.