Torchwood

[jack]

OK, the plot wasn't entirely coherent. I liked rjk's description that "there were some cause/effect problems." However:

* They brought Suzy and the glove back, and may do so again. The first ep felt like it was setting things up from the start of an arc, it's satisfying to feel the ominousness of the glove going somewhere -- the fact that it was all shut down so neatly was something that made me unsatisfied with it.

* I liked Suzy's plan! The idea of having this long-ranging Machiavellian contingency dead-man-switch plan that saves her if she dies. (Ignore for now that it seemed retrofitted out-of-character to knowledge she only had later.)

* "There's nothing there," felt a nihilistic approach to afterlife very appropriate to the show. And pleasantly atheistic too, despite it turning out to imply some life-after-death after all. "But something's coming," felt pleasingly vague and ominous -- being attacked from the afterlife backward is always a promising sort of evil for a series, though I don't suppose it'll turn out any less to be represented by vague angst and cheap demon special effects than any other time.

Comments

[ewx.livejournal.com]

I meant that the characters I mentioned were analyzing cause and effect badly, not that the story was causally inconsistent.

A genuinely nihilistic afterlife would surely not be an afterlife at all: you're just dead, there's no you to experience things any more (or to bring back - your brain just rots and that's the end of it). Suzie's experience while dead may have been bleak but there was apparently still something of her left to experience it and to be brought back to life.

Suzie's plan makes sense if she suspects she might be killed or imprisoned, and if she's going round murdering people just to try the glove out then it's a fair bet something bad might happen to her. The thing that doesn't really make sense is killing herself.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I meant that the characters I mentioned were analyzing cause and effect badly, not that the story was causally inconsistent.

Oh. Well, *I* meant that. It maybe could be ok, but I'm pretty assiduous at patching things up and just didn't feel like trying.

A genuinely nihilistic afterlife would surely not be an afterlife at all: you're just dead, there's no you to experience things any more (or to bring back - your brain just rots and that's the end of it). Suzie's experience while dead may have been bleak but there was apparently still something of her left to experience it and to be brought back to life.

Agreed. That's what I meant by "despite" :)

Of course, that *is* what I believe, and that therefore the purpose of life is living it as they said, but don't see that then this is depressing and/or nihilistic :)

Suzie's plan makes sense if she suspects she might be killed or imprisoned, and if she's going round murdering people just to try the glove out then it's a fair bet something bad might happen to her. The thing that doesn't really make sense is killing herself.

Setting up whatshisname to go berserk, get detained, and shut down Torchwood if she's disappears, likely imprisoned, dead, or pursued makes sense (and had my hearty approval). But they found Max and Suzy by using the glove, which Suzy knew was unreliable. If she wanted them to resurrect her to find Max, they should have found her link before his, probably in the records. If she wanted him captured, then he likely would go down one way or another, but the plan can't have unfolded as she predicted. And it's extremely convoluted -- wouldn't a dead man's switch in the computer than shuts it down if she's not there for 3 months be at least as reliable? And Suzy seems to imply she already knew about the dark afterlife, and that the glove would bring someone back permanently, whereas previously there was no indication she did. And as far as she knew there was no-one else who could use the glove at all!

The suicide -- in context of the plan, she could have let herself be captured. But maybe she was feeling all remorseful and forgot the chaos she'd leave if she died. Or maybe she knew a lot more about the glove, and was pretty certain of coming back.

Don't make me have to watch it *again*!

[minipoppy.livejournal.com]

So, sidestepping deep causal conversations, I have a question about that episode. What was the whole thing at the end about the stopwatch, with Ianto and Jack? I mean, our cat was demanding attention right at the beginning of the scene so maybe we missed something critical, but I had no idea what that was all about!

Re: Don't make me have to watch it *again*!

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

It wasn't obvious to me (or the top few hits on Google) either. In order of likelihood, I hypothesise:

* It was an in-joke I didn't get.
* It was a sexual reference I was too innocent to get. Maybe something to do with how long things take, or insertion??
* It was unconsummated flirting for the sake of it, that didn't have to make sense.
* It was consummated flirting for the sake of it, that didn't have to make sense.

Re: Don't make me have to watch it *again*!

[minipoppy.livejournal.com]

Glad it wasn't just me. I thought it seemed flirty, but *really*! Ianto is still mourning, would he likely get squishy with the man who killed his girlfriend?

OK, I think picking up plot holes in Torchwood is likely to be a long and thankless task!

Re: Don't make me have to watch it *again*!

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Re: Don't make me have to watch it *again*!

LOL.

I thought it seemed flirty,

I didn't think there was any doubt it was flirty, though :) I don't know if it was "we are going to have sex now flirty" or "everything Jack does is flirty because that's what it's like, it doesn't mean anything flirty"

I don't know how much time has gone by; the whole Lisa thing isn't having much attention, but then in an episodic show I'm amazed it has any.