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jackOod! What did you think?
Ood! This episode was also pretty good, playing to all the strengths of the modern doctor who. I'm not sure it'll have staying power, but it had humour, drama, beautiful visuals and raised interesting questions.
Wait, what?
Ood! This episode was also pretty good, playing to all the strengths of the modern doctor who. I'm not sure it'll have staying power, but it had humour, drama, beautiful visuals and raised interesting questions.
I mean, this is a cartesian review. Where are the nitpicks about science? What about those external brains? You must be able to metaphorically rip those to shreds!
Well, actually...
Sigh. You're going to try to justify it, aren't you.
Well, they look they're a hive species. Things that would be maladaptive for a breeding individual can work better for a drone -- look at bees that have their insides ripped out by their stinger when they try to withdraw after stinging something[1].
But... having the most vital part of your body sort of dangling loosely attached outside?
Look who's talking, bub.
Seriously, who is talking? No, never mind. Really, Ood brains?
OK, no, it seems too far fetched. But Donna's theory could hold a grain of truth, if Ood are sufficiently intelligent enough, but still a hive species, having children that have to work together might work out better than having ones that can fight for resources. Maybe.
OK, ok. What about philosophy nitpicks?
OK. I was disappointed they went the whole hog and made the exploiting company simply evil. Certainly, "evil people enslave people and good people look the other way" is a story worth retelling. But if the Ood really had needed masters (say, they had been hive servants of a big Ood brain that had died out), that would have presented a conflict that was actually inherently interesting.
For that matter, I think it's a slight cop-out because the history of the Ood wasn't specified in the story where they're introduced: in that episode it's presented as slightly weird, but we are asked to accept as a plot point that the Ood are what they are, and then in this episode the rug is pulled away and we're asked to imagine that they were evilly enslaved all along. It hangs together _pretty_ well, but the first asks us to accept the Ood the way we accept the TARDIS, and magic translation, and so on, and then the second comes along and says "Haha! No, we tricked you! Feel guilty for not caring more about the Ood in the first place!"
Which is effective in giving the second episode an emotional impact -- very well done, in fact. But it very much changes the meaning of the first episode: if you watch them in order, and don't know that they changed the history retroactively, then the first episode ends with the doctor abandoning a hundred lobotomised but curable slaves to die in a black hole of satan in order to save three or four slavers. Imagine if the humans were the slaves rather than the slavers, it doesn't really feel like the doctor, does it?
And some more stupid things, that you don't care about yourself, but you don't want people to think you missed
*sigh* OK. All the Ood are recalled to home at once? Isn't that a bit pat? And red-eye is a psychic disease? Why does it turn eyes red then? And johnny-free-ood just turned the power down, rather than off? And all the Ood turn angry apart from one? Who isn't shot? And a giant brain lives entirely off falling scientists? And one "good" Ood? And if the Ood are lobotomised, why does turning on the big brain make them ok again?
And things you liked?
I loved that they did explore the back-history of the ood. I liked the Arctic landscape. (I was scared Donna was going to hole up in the Tardis completely as a complete wimp, but getting a parker is actually pretty sensible.) I liked Donna -- she complained a little, but by and large was sensitive, had good ideas and gumption, and kept the doctor in his place, yay Donna!
Getting locked in a container with red Ood was scary. The chase with the giant clamp was fun. I don't suppose I'll ever be scared by this sort of thing again, but it was well done. So many similar examples happen because the villain and/or security system is dumb, but here it completely makes sense: the guard is reckless and gives it a go, and it's supposed to be difficult to catch a humanoid with it, that's why the doctor can narrowly escape.
All the Ood chanting in circles were very cool. As was the music -- that's really hard to portray well, but they really brought it off well.
Future thoughts
Sontarans. Hm, well they're kind of stupid, but I'll be glad to see it. I'd love to see UNIT again, I really want to see what they're like now and how new who portrays them. Though I thought they were wiped out when the top brass were killed by the Unpronounceable Skin-suit Aliens. I'll reserve judgement on Martha; I'm curious to see how she is in doctor who proper again.
But we've seen a lot of the history of Torchwood, but not much between WWII and now: what were they doing when UNIT was running round with the doctor? How come this quasi-military ghost-hunting organisations never stepped on each other's toes, or even coexisted?
[1] And if you think that's a raw deal, remind me not to tell you what a drone's insides are ripped out by after they try to withdraw after having sex.
Ood! This episode was also pretty good, playing to all the strengths of the modern doctor who. I'm not sure it'll have staying power, but it had humour, drama, beautiful visuals and raised interesting questions.
Wait, what?
Ood! This episode was also pretty good, playing to all the strengths of the modern doctor who. I'm not sure it'll have staying power, but it had humour, drama, beautiful visuals and raised interesting questions.
I mean, this is a cartesian review. Where are the nitpicks about science? What about those external brains? You must be able to metaphorically rip those to shreds!
Well, actually...
Sigh. You're going to try to justify it, aren't you.
Well, they look they're a hive species. Things that would be maladaptive for a breeding individual can work better for a drone -- look at bees that have their insides ripped out by their stinger when they try to withdraw after stinging something[1].
But... having the most vital part of your body sort of dangling loosely attached outside?
Look who's talking, bub.
Seriously, who is talking? No, never mind. Really, Ood brains?
OK, no, it seems too far fetched. But Donna's theory could hold a grain of truth, if Ood are sufficiently intelligent enough, but still a hive species, having children that have to work together might work out better than having ones that can fight for resources. Maybe.
OK, ok. What about philosophy nitpicks?
OK. I was disappointed they went the whole hog and made the exploiting company simply evil. Certainly, "evil people enslave people and good people look the other way" is a story worth retelling. But if the Ood really had needed masters (say, they had been hive servants of a big Ood brain that had died out), that would have presented a conflict that was actually inherently interesting.
For that matter, I think it's a slight cop-out because the history of the Ood wasn't specified in the story where they're introduced: in that episode it's presented as slightly weird, but we are asked to accept as a plot point that the Ood are what they are, and then in this episode the rug is pulled away and we're asked to imagine that they were evilly enslaved all along. It hangs together _pretty_ well, but the first asks us to accept the Ood the way we accept the TARDIS, and magic translation, and so on, and then the second comes along and says "Haha! No, we tricked you! Feel guilty for not caring more about the Ood in the first place!"
Which is effective in giving the second episode an emotional impact -- very well done, in fact. But it very much changes the meaning of the first episode: if you watch them in order, and don't know that they changed the history retroactively, then the first episode ends with the doctor abandoning a hundred lobotomised but curable slaves to die in a black hole of satan in order to save three or four slavers. Imagine if the humans were the slaves rather than the slavers, it doesn't really feel like the doctor, does it?
And some more stupid things, that you don't care about yourself, but you don't want people to think you missed
*sigh* OK. All the Ood are recalled to home at once? Isn't that a bit pat? And red-eye is a psychic disease? Why does it turn eyes red then? And johnny-free-ood just turned the power down, rather than off? And all the Ood turn angry apart from one? Who isn't shot? And a giant brain lives entirely off falling scientists? And one "good" Ood? And if the Ood are lobotomised, why does turning on the big brain make them ok again?
And things you liked?
I loved that they did explore the back-history of the ood. I liked the Arctic landscape. (I was scared Donna was going to hole up in the Tardis completely as a complete wimp, but getting a parker is actually pretty sensible.) I liked Donna -- she complained a little, but by and large was sensitive, had good ideas and gumption, and kept the doctor in his place, yay Donna!
Getting locked in a container with red Ood was scary. The chase with the giant clamp was fun. I don't suppose I'll ever be scared by this sort of thing again, but it was well done. So many similar examples happen because the villain and/or security system is dumb, but here it completely makes sense: the guard is reckless and gives it a go, and it's supposed to be difficult to catch a humanoid with it, that's why the doctor can narrowly escape.
All the Ood chanting in circles were very cool. As was the music -- that's really hard to portray well, but they really brought it off well.
Future thoughts
Sontarans. Hm, well they're kind of stupid, but I'll be glad to see it. I'd love to see UNIT again, I really want to see what they're like now and how new who portrays them. Though I thought they were wiped out when the top brass were killed by the Unpronounceable Skin-suit Aliens. I'll reserve judgement on Martha; I'm curious to see how she is in doctor who proper again.
But we've seen a lot of the history of Torchwood, but not much between WWII and now: what were they doing when UNIT was running round with the doctor? How come this quasi-military ghost-hunting organisations never stepped on each other's toes, or even coexisted?
[1] And if you think that's a raw deal, remind me not to tell you what a drone's insides are ripped out by after they try to withdraw after having sex.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-24 11:38 am (UTC)Wrt The Impossible Planet (the first Ood double), the Doctor's choice was never, and never would be, based on slavery ethics. He saved the humans (mostly) because Rose was on the ship with them, and if she'd been with the Ood I think he would have been more inclined to save them instead. IMO, anyway.
And if the Ood are lobotomised, why does turning on the big brain make them ok again?
Whatever limitation they were imposing on the big brain was supposed to make them OK again when taken away, right? So maybe the implication is that they no longer have the red eye thing but still have problems. I mean, we don't know how their functions were divided between their fore- and hind-brains, so we don't know in exactly what way the removal of their fore-brains has affected them. So maybe they're no longer mad and are no longer having their desire for freedom or ability to sing supressed, but OTOH maybe they are now emotionally and/or ethically unstable, human-language-speaking, and so on... This clearly calls out for more Ood episodes. Episoods.
I'd love to see UNIT again, I really want to see what they're like now and how new who portrays them. Though I thought they were wiped out when the top brass were killed by the Unpronounceable Skin-suit Aliens.
Do you mean in Aliens of London/World War Three? I don't think they would have sent all of UNIT to Downing St, would they?
Another question about Torchwood is how the Cardiff and London branches co-existed, I think. But I'll save that speculation for another time...
P.S. I rewatched Smith and Jones (first episode of series three) last night, and had forgotten how good it was. Exciting, and it showed Martha as pretty good companion material.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-24 12:35 pm (UTC)Fair enough, iirc he didn't have a choice, but I think the episode was "supposed" to have a tone of cautious optimism rather than tragedy at the end.
maybe the implication is that they no longer have the red eye thing but still have problems.
That would make sense -- and best support more Ood episodes. Maybe we could have one with an Ood that doesn't go evil but is just a character, that would be cool. But the impression I got from the ending was that they were supposed to be all fixed.
Do you mean in Aliens of London/World War Three?
Yeah. No, I suppose they can't have been. I had the impression it was (in the 60s) a fairly small, elite squad, so knocking off ten officers might well have ruined it. But in actual fact, there must also always have been non-british installations.
In fact, I felt that the series wanted UNIT out of the way so Torchwood could play the alien science acquisition role, so threw in a mention (squee).
But yes, what you said makes sense, so I'm glad they're back.
Another question about Torchwood is how the Cardiff and London branches co-existed,
When the Torchwood series first started I had the impression Torchwood had been around for ages, recently abused for insane political ends and nearly wiped out by cybermen, at which point Jack having been in some other role, resurrected Torchwood Cardiff from whatever people were left. But I didn't really follow the series, so that might not be very consistent.
(Someone did opine that you basically had to accept the series as separate things)
P.S. I rewatched Smith and Jones
Yay! I didn't love it 100%, but I liked a lot of it. (Especially that the doctor acquired an alias without seeming to acquire a name.) I never had a problem with Martha (except that it was a retread of the companion-in-love trope), but lots of people had objected so I wanted to reserve judgement.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-24 05:20 pm (UTC)He did express regret though. Also, the last time you see the guy who was acting captain on the sanctuary base, he's recording the death of each Ood individually. So at least they were thought of :)
UNIT/Torchwood
It's interesting to see how UNIT and Torchwood have worked together in Torchwood series 2. The first time you hear of cooperation is when Martha visits, sort of on loan to them as a medic who's investigating the same thing. And then it's UNIT who raid the nasty people who kidnapped Tosh's mother, so it must be UNIT who were holding her without trial in a Guantanamo-style place... so maybe UNIT aren't completely the good guys? More questionable ethics?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-24 05:53 pm (UTC)He did express regret though.
Yeah. But the regret could be as commensurate with leaving loved animals behind, as of brain-damaged humans, it could be either way.
he's recording the death of each Ood individually
*hugs* Yeah, I'm glad they did have that individuality, it was never really shown in the first ep. *hugs ood*
It's interesting to see how UNIT and Torchwood have worked together in Torchwood series 2.
Oh, right! I turned on at just the wrong point, I never knew UNIT featured at all. That is interesting, it makes sense they would show up in doctor who, then.
It makes sense they would be oppositely extra-legal to torchwood too.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-26 12:43 pm (UTC)I didn't think you did! But I'll have to look back and see if I should have taken offence ;)
It makes sense they would be oppositely extra-legal to torchwood too.
Yes, quite! Their ways of working are clearly very different, but, apart from some moral questionability (no both sides, really), neither organisation seems to be being portrayed as *bad* (I mean in the way that London Torchwood was bad, not in the way that Daleks are bad).
no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 02:06 pm (UTC)Surely its at least as equal to the emotion he feels in Pompeii though?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 02:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-29 04:20 pm (UTC)