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[personal profile] jack
This episode was very good. It was all of thought provoking, funny and creepy. Even Rilstone was positive about it :) (although my surprise was nothing to what Zero Punctuation had to say about Portal :)).

Nitpicks

Hm, nothing comes to mind. The doctor's flamboyant self rants are a little over the top, but only a little. I had the impression that the one trillion people were a saturation error in the software, which seems a strange value to saturate at, but certainly not impossible.

Best lines

"If you understand me, look very, very afraid."
"It's swollen shut" "Use the sonic.. thingy!" "I can't, it's WOOD"
1 trillion living beings. Total silence. "They can't be books. Can they?"

Ms Doctor

I'm surprised more people weren't screaming about this. The doctor meets a woman he's had a throughout-time relationship with, strongly portrayed as his lover (although that could be misdirection or my mistake: she could be a friend, or companion, or his daughter grown up, or other timelord somehow).

I'd dreaded this, as though I thought exploring the doctor's potential sexuality was an interesting aspect to explore, having three companions in love with him (four if you count Jack) was taking it too far, and an actual relationship would kill the magic forever. However, that was just assuming that it wouldn't work.

But it did work. I couldn't see it ever working with a companion, but someone else could be more complete in themselves, and be an anchor for him, and vice-versa, away from his normal life. River was affectionate but not over the top, and I really liked her. Even if the doctor is essentially asexual, it makes sense he finds a companion once.

Date: 2008-06-02 12:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frithonthehills.livejournal.com
The thing that put me off that woman was that it felt so much like The Time-Traveller's Wife... the whole she knows him when he first meets her, and the diary of when they meet...

Date: 2008-06-02 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Ah, I see. I haven't actually read that, or anything with that idea except tangentially, so it came across well to me.

Date: 2008-06-02 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
It feels like there is almost a paradox in there somewhere.

When the Doctor first encounters River, he does not know her, but she knows him.

Later he will meet her when she does not know him, but he knows her [future self].

Presumably to avoid a paradox the Doctor has to keep certain things from River when he does meet her earlier in her timeline?

I think there could be potential for something circular with the sonic screwdriver in the next episode. Perhaps the Doctor will lose his and River will be able to give it back? And that is why the Doctor later gives it to River because he knows he needed it in his past.

In my view River did not behave as a timelord. I don't think she can be Jenny from certain comments River made (e.g. "we go a long way back, but not that far back").

Date: 2008-06-02 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
I think it's one of those things that I'm not sure if there's a real name for. Circular causality, ie. there's event A which causes B, which causes A. Which is ruled out by relativity, and always carries the *potential* for paradox, if someone deliberately breaks the chain. But need not *actually* cause a paradox, and may be likely or unlikely to do so depending on the way your universe works.

In Doctor Who's universe I think this sort of thing falls in the big category of "can be done sometimes, if you're a timelord and know what you're doing, but cannot be done reliably"

I think there could be potential for something circular with the sonic screwdriver in the next episode.

I hadn't thought of that. I don't think it's necessary, but it would definitely fit very well.

In my view River did not behave as a timelord.

Where was that quote from, I can't remember the context? Anyway, being Jenny definitely didn't feel right to me either. However, the other likely possibilities seemed to be lover, companion, or friend, and lover felt right to me, but is a big break with tradition, companion would imply travelling with him, and TV shows can never let people just be friends without some other link. So it seemed like it could be any.

Date: 2008-06-03 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Round about 33 minutes in when River is talking to Donna:

"... this is the Doctor in the days before he knew me ..."

"... we go way back that man and me, just not this far back ..."

And Jenny would presumably have recognised Donna?

Date: 2008-06-03 09:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Round about 33 minutes in when River is talking to Donna:

Ah, thank you. So they're supposed to know each other in the future, but not before. (It seems possible they met once, but didn't really know each other, that would be _possible_ for jenny, although not very satisfactory. However, you're right, Jenny would have to know Donna, so it definitely can't be her.)

Date: 2008-06-04 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robhu.livejournal.com
It could be Stephen Kitsen aka ChiarkPerson.

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