Bisexual kisses
Jun. 26th, 2008 07:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackThe backstory
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jun/24/asa.advertising
Heinz showed an advert where the mother of a family was replaced by a (male) New York deli sandwich maker. At the end, the husband is running of to work, and the sandwich maker says "Hey, aren't you forgetting something" in a humorously New York gruff way, and the husband gives him a little kiss.
The digressions
There's obviously lots of other things you might observe. For instance:
* It follows all the assumptions of having a wife at home cooking, two men having a career, etc.
* I'm sure really good deli's give really good sandwiches, however, averagely good amateurs seem to make better sandwiches than average deli's, so the basic message "as good as if you had a professional sandwich maker" didn't resonate
The point
The advert was removed when several people complained it was inappropriate for kids. (Presumably because it showed a gay kiss, although this wasn't actually stated in the article I read.) (People wishing to complain about that, someone linked to contact details here )
However, it's not showing an actual gay couple. Several people verbalised what was nagging me, atreic: "so I find it very nudge-nudge-wink-wink men kissing that's _funny_, and I'm quite glad the damn thing has been pulled.",
foreverdirt summed it up "If it hadn't been for Heinz's actions, I would be torn between quiet cheer that the ad features a same-sex kiss that isn't treated with disgust, and equally quiet fuming about how sexist and heteronormative the ad is. However, I am much, much more offended by the ad being pulled for featuring a same-sex kiss than I am by the ad itself -- it's not that the ad was a great leap forward, but the reasons that it was pulled are a great leap back."
It's a joke about gay kisses, rather than portraying gay kisses as normal. Which could be nasty, but on reflection, I think can be a positive thing.
It's not a nasty joke. There seems a sequence of societal acceptance that starts with jokes because they show [thing that makes people uncomfortable], and have a good marketing reason for showing it, without being as much of a leap as actually showing [thing] positively would be.
I've often thought this about bisexuality, which seemed to lag a number of years behind gay in getting any tv acceptence. Gay portrayal seems to have gone through the sequence -- there's obviously a long way to go, but I think it started with jokes about gay people, and now there are every so often normal gay characters on TV. TV acceptance of Bi seems to be just starting: it's generally only shown where it's funny. But I think that, counter-intuitively, it is a step on the way to becoming accepted.
Gratuitous quote from Jonathan–Ross-kissing fantasy author[1]
I can't find the exact quote, but Neil Gaiman said something like he was worried about the portrayal of the captain in the film Neverwhere, because he thought it was great, but he knew it could be seen as perpetuating a whole bunch of stereotypes. But then he got an award from a big gay and lesbian society for "best film portrayal of a (probably) gay character evar" or similar, and felt happy again, and treasures the memory to bring out if anyone ever criticises it.[2]
[1] "Jonathon–Ross-kissing" modifies author, not fantasy :)
[2] Agh, anyone got the actual quote?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jun/24/asa.advertising
Heinz showed an advert where the mother of a family was replaced by a (male) New York deli sandwich maker. At the end, the husband is running of to work, and the sandwich maker says "Hey, aren't you forgetting something" in a humorously New York gruff way, and the husband gives him a little kiss.
The digressions
There's obviously lots of other things you might observe. For instance:
* It follows all the assumptions of having a wife at home cooking, two men having a career, etc.
* I'm sure really good deli's give really good sandwiches, however, averagely good amateurs seem to make better sandwiches than average deli's, so the basic message "as good as if you had a professional sandwich maker" didn't resonate
The point
The advert was removed when several people complained it was inappropriate for kids. (Presumably because it showed a gay kiss, although this wasn't actually stated in the article I read.) (People wishing to complain about that, someone linked to contact details here )
However, it's not showing an actual gay couple. Several people verbalised what was nagging me, atreic: "so I find it very nudge-nudge-wink-wink men kissing that's _funny_, and I'm quite glad the damn thing has been pulled.",
foreverdirt summed it up "If it hadn't been for Heinz's actions, I would be torn between quiet cheer that the ad features a same-sex kiss that isn't treated with disgust, and equally quiet fuming about how sexist and heteronormative the ad is. However, I am much, much more offended by the ad being pulled for featuring a same-sex kiss than I am by the ad itself -- it's not that the ad was a great leap forward, but the reasons that it was pulled are a great leap back."
It's a joke about gay kisses, rather than portraying gay kisses as normal. Which could be nasty, but on reflection, I think can be a positive thing.
It's not a nasty joke. There seems a sequence of societal acceptance that starts with jokes because they show [thing that makes people uncomfortable], and have a good marketing reason for showing it, without being as much of a leap as actually showing [thing] positively would be.
I've often thought this about bisexuality, which seemed to lag a number of years behind gay in getting any tv acceptence. Gay portrayal seems to have gone through the sequence -- there's obviously a long way to go, but I think it started with jokes about gay people, and now there are every so often normal gay characters on TV. TV acceptance of Bi seems to be just starting: it's generally only shown where it's funny. But I think that, counter-intuitively, it is a step on the way to becoming accepted.
Gratuitous quote from Jonathan–Ross-kissing fantasy author[1]
I can't find the exact quote, but Neil Gaiman said something like he was worried about the portrayal of the captain in the film Neverwhere, because he thought it was great, but he knew it could be seen as perpetuating a whole bunch of stereotypes. But then he got an award from a big gay and lesbian society for "best film portrayal of a (probably) gay character evar" or similar, and felt happy again, and treasures the memory to bring out if anyone ever criticises it.[2]
[1] "Jonathon–Ross-kissing" modifies author, not fantasy :)
[2] Agh, anyone got the actual quote?
no subject
Date: 2008-06-26 10:36 pm (UTC)Exactly. Of course, it's probably complicated by bisexuality actually including a range of inclinations. There are films that have a character who vacillates between heterosexuality and homosexuality, and ALSO films with a character who sleeps with anything of any gender; but iirc few with someone who chooses a person but not a sexuality.
though I know about the Copious Spare Time issue here.
LOL. Thank you.
I have friend filters I rarely follow, if I need :)