jack: (Default)
[personal profile] jack
I'm definitely starting to be left behind by language change :) Apparently "non-plussed" reversed in meaning a few months ago.

Date: 2008-08-14 02:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fishpi.livejournal.com
Did it become hyphenated at the same time?

Date: 2008-08-14 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Can't you arbitrarily hyphenate when you apply prefixes? Oh, never mind :)

Date: 2008-08-14 02:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-alchemist.livejournal.com
Those kinds of reversals are egregious!

(The one that irritates me most is 'could care less' for 'couldn't care less', which is sort of the opposite, in that the wording is reversed while the meaning stays constant.)

Date: 2008-08-14 03:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pseudomonas.livejournal.com
Yes, but the former is basically a sarcastic version of the latter, no?

Date: 2008-08-14 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
I've heard this argument, but I've not heard any evidence that anyone ever did say that. Probably they did at some point, but to me it seems a more likely reason for the change that people simply memorise the meaning of the phrase as a whole, and then lazily chop off syllables apparently superfluous to recognising the phrase.

Date: 2008-08-14 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pseudomonas.livejournal.com
I agree, it's back in the origin of the phrase (and of the variant). Both are now pretty much idioms by now though; their compositional meanings are really secondary.

Date: 2008-08-14 03:33 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-08-14 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-alchemist.livejournal.com
I don't think so. Maybe originally, but mostly I see it from people who are not very clever and fairly clearly just have some vague, muddled idea that 'less' means 'not very much' so it makes sense that "I could care less" means "I don't really care."

Date: 2008-08-14 03:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Exactly. Or rather, I think that's a very accurate description of why the phrase is used that way, and why it annoys me, but that I can't really blame people for it: I think what you hear other people use probably has as much affect on whether you use "could care less" as whether you're intelligent or inclined to examine language carefully.

Date: 2008-08-14 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] james-r.livejournal.com
I find it irritating when people refer to magnitudes as being n times less than something else (when they actually mean one-nth of it).

Date: 2008-08-14 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
At least that's fairly clear -- I'm ok with "n times smaller", so for an unsigned value, "n times less" is clear, even if it ought to mean "-(n-1) something else". I'm more boggled by "twice as hot" not seeming to refer to any zero point...

Date: 2008-08-14 03:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
ROFL. What particularly tickles me was that I had forgotten or not known that egregious was nearing the end of that U-turn, but able to deduce it from what you said :)

> could care less

Yeah, that annoys me very much, even though I know perfectly well that phrases that become idiomatic get polished shorter over time.

Date: 2008-08-14 03:08 pm (UTC)
ext_3241: (Default)
From: [identity profile] pizza.maircrosoft.com (from livejournal.com)
really? what does it mean now? *is nonplussed*

Date: 2008-08-14 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Well, apparently "plussed". Or, more accurately, "unfazed".

Date: 2008-08-14 03:19 pm (UTC)
ext_3241: (Default)
From: [identity profile] pizza.maircrosoft.com (from livejournal.com)
*is plussed*

Date: 2008-08-14 03:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rysmiel.livejournal.com
The one that really makes me scream is people using "phase" in place of "faze".

Date: 2008-08-14 04:01 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-08-14 05:48 pm (UTC)
ext_8103: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ewx.livejournal.com
Discussion. I suspect “a few months ago” is Jack having a laugh...

Date: 2008-08-14 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
:) Well, a few months before it becomes widely reported seems like a good description. I guess the "unfazed" sense has been around for a long time, but the tipping point must be around about the point where people used to the "fazed" sense notice...

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