International standard of famous

[jack]

When thinking about David, the question came up of the most famous piece of art (Mona Lisa?), and how to measure that, and swiftly thence to people. A similar criteria of famousness, say "percentage of people who have heard of", can apply equally well to people, art, and other things.

The obvious suggestion was to normalise between 0.0 and 1.0. It was originally going to be normalised to Jesus at 1.0, but that was probably not complete, so I decided 1.0 should be things known to everyone. That provides some baseline. Say "the sun" is up at 1.0.

I guessed Jesus would be the most famous person (including mythology), being as how people have heard of him all over the world. However, Livredor pointed out that it's quite possible he's not known all over China, and getting 1 biln people in China is a noticeable chunk of that elusive 1.0 score. If you are known to everyone except China, your fame is 0.83 or similar. On the other hand, Chairman Mao has been pretty well known everywhere else; is it possible he actually was more famous than Jesus?

Is there anyone else with a score of 80%+? Real or mythological? You can come up with other concepts in that range. (eg. "Ocean" is known to most adults, but not all. "God" probably doesn't include all small-g gods though.)

Another approach would be to integrate population over time. Jesus, being so widley known for 1000+ years probably beats out anyone mainly known in their own lifetime or own continent. However, he probably also beats out anyone known for N thousand years before that, due to recent explosive population growth.

Another would be to integrate percentage over time. I'm not sure what effect that would have. Anyone from the start of time would be known to everyone, if they could just stay famous long enough, but more recent people may have more staying fame if they do manage to be widely known. Will someone famous for millennia in late BC beat out both?

Comments

[woodpijn.livejournal.com]

Interesting topic :)

robhu beat me to the John Lennon joke.

On the other hand, Chairman Mao has been pretty well known everywhere else; is it possible he actually was more famous than Jesus?
I expect a lot of relatively uneducated people in this country and the US haven't heard of Chairman Mao, particularly younger people.
Also, there are tribes without much contact with the rest of the world, who have been reached by missionaries; they'll have heard of Jesus, but they won't know any recent-ish history except their own and possibly a little bit of the missionaries' country, so they won't have heard of Mao.
And I expect the proportion of Chinese who've at least heard of Jesus is way more than the proportion who are Christians.

A Western celebrity or cartoon character who's also big in China might be a contender, at least in the short term. Also, perhaps a fictional or mythological figure who exists in different variations in different cultures, if you're prepared to count them as the same person.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, very good points.

I expect a lot of relatively uneducated people in this country and the US haven't heard of Chairman Mao, particularly younger people.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I changed the tenses in my post to be past tenses, from when we were discussing it before.

Also, there are tribes without much contact with the rest of the world,

Yeah, indeed. And indeed, probably rural/poor people of many countries may not be that isolated, but not receive any international news either. But I'm not sure how many. Lots? Millions? Billions?

And I expect the proportion of Chinese who've at least heard of Jesus is way more than the proportion who are Christians.

I'd assume so :)

A Western celebrity or cartoon character who's also big in China might be a contender,

Yeah, that's a good thought. If they're not that famous, but everyone tends to have heard of them. If they can cross of America/Europe and China, they're off to a good start.

perhaps a fictional or mythological figure who exists in different variations in different cultures,

I was thinking about this, though I don't think I know enough mythology; I couldn't think of anyone likely to be as universal as Jesus (livredor suggested contenders).

[ilanin.livejournal.com]

A Western celebrity or cartoon character who's also big in China might be a contender, at least in the short term.

Mickey Mouse, traditionally.

Adolf Hitler also has a reasonable chance simply because schoolchildren on almost every continent are taught about him.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Hitler also came up, and is always a very good example, but while I assume (rightly?) he's viewed as a byword for evil much the same everywhere, I thought the repetitive schooling was a lot less outside Europe and America[1].

[1] Australia came up in the original conversation, and for these purposes we agreed to ignore it, since the population is weenier than the margin of error for the population of Europe/America. In fact, hold on, let me find a few basic stats on world population.

[ilanin.livejournal.com]

I assume (without going to the any effort to acquire evidence) that Facism is used as a byword for evil by Russian-influenced China and British-influenced India as well.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Good point. I wouldn't be surprised, that would make sense, though nor would I be surprised if more local/current politics dominated the teaching or propaganda. Anyone else know?