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Apropos a conversation last night:


Vitenka suggested a magic card with "tap" twice in the cost, and I immediately conceived of the card above[1]. It's so difficult to achieve, I think it ought to win the game. The idea is, the only thing you can do while paying costs for an ability is play mana abilities. However, mana abilities can have side effects. Thus, might you be able to use a mana ability which, as a side effect, untaps the card so you can tap it again while paying the same cost?

ETA: Added the corresponding untap card. This is a lot easier (if more hastily designed), since there actually are a fair number of cards that ask you to tap another card as a cost to produce mana.

The rules refers to the comp rules which describe all the necessary interactions.

Of course, this card wouldn't actually work because:

(a) You can only play mana abilities if the total cost includes a mana payment.
(b) You can use mana abilities during the playing of a spell, but only in step 409.1g, explicitly after (f) where total cost is determined and before (h) where the total cost is actually paid. Thus it doesn't work at all.

[1] Being "tapped" refers to turning a card sideways. This is often used as a cost for an ability that can normally only be used once each turn. The idea of needing two "taps" to use a single ability is funny.[2] Because there's few ways to untap cards, and inherently no way to use any effect whilst paying costs for another.

[2] Originally the sentence carried straight on "is funny because..." but I felt non-magic players might need a separate assertion that it was funny before entertaining questions about why it was funny :)

Double Tap

Date: 2009-02-04 07:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] passage.livejournal.com
I thought double tap just left the card upside down

Re: Double Tap

Date: 2009-02-11 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
:) And if so, I just realised, if so, in your untap phase, does it become untapped, or become only single tapped?

Date: 2009-02-04 09:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arkannath.livejournal.com
Your "headache" card made me lose the game.

Date: 2009-02-04 11:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ilanin.livejournal.com
It's not particularly difficult to achieve. Well, OK, it requires a few cards. March of the Machines, Forbidden Orchard, Intruder Alarm.

(Disclaimer. This may not actually work, and even if it does there are ways to win the game this way without resorting to inventing cards)

Date: 2009-02-04 12:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Disclaimer. This may not actually work, and even if it does there are ways to win the game this way without resorting to inventing cards

:) Thanks. I don't think that combo quite works: I think things that happen in response to a mana ability, if not themselves a mana ability, go on the stack after the original action has been played. I feel silly knowing those obscure rules details despite not really being a magic player at all, but I'm always too interested in that sort of thing and looked them up when I wrote this. But some similar combo certainly would. My rule of thumb was that if the combo requires three or more specific cards to work, it's probably ok to have it end the game (there are lots of combinations of three cards that basically win, I think, it's just non-trivial to get to them).

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