Wheel of Time -- Lord of Chaos
Jul. 21st, 2010 11:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackMadness
I like Rand's incipient madness a lot. It ebbs and flows somewhat inconsistently, and is presumably not realistic, but does a good job of making someone feel creepy but functional, and of someone sometimes playing up and playing down their eccentricities depending on the situation.
I also like Rand's obsession over the Maidens of the Spear who have died. It's possibly bad of me to like this even though it's embracing an unfortunate stereotype, but it chilled me a lot because (a) everyone ADMITS it's arbitrary, even Rand (b) he doesn't go off and fuck everything up by trying to be subtle; he tried to leave the women out of the battle, they notice and call him out for pissing on their honour, he admits he was wrong and accepts them, but then agonises about it (c) he recognises that it's a completely ridiculous thing to do, but still obsesses over it, and, well, he IS going mad, I found it very touching that he kept paying for his (correct) decision inside, and it adds a marvellous martyred hero air. I don't know what it says about me that I empathised so strongly with someone bottling up an unanswerable obsession.
(Conversely, his continued reluctance to kill enemies -- who perpetrate mass murder, torture, and the unravelling of the thread of reality, repeatedly, every time he lets them go -- because they're women is just frustrating and tedious, because it doesn't ADD anything to his character, it just fucks up the plot.)
Climax of LoC
I found the end of Lord of Chaos, where Rand is kidnapped in the box, and rescued, the most moving climax of the whole series, despite not having any of the usual forsaken. The normal pattern of a climax is that people faff about for the whole book, and then suddenly something happens and they're thrown into the middle of a magic duel they don't understand, which they win by pulling some previous-unseen power out of a hat under stress. Which is not _that_ satisfying.
Whereas, here, the kidnap-Rand plot is actually a really good plot. In retrospect, it's really obvious, but beforehand it's totally not obvious what's going to happen. It stands alone with maybe one other as a plot which is well-thought-out and well-executed (if in a wrong-headed aim).
And then the forces of light don't win because they pull something out of their hat; they win because lots of different people care about Rand, Perrin and the two-rivers people, many but not all of the Aiel, some Aes Sedai, even some of the Cairhienian nobles who have no specific reason to, but are grateful to him, and all make a concerted effort to do something about it. People work together for one of the few times.
And then they're rescued by the metaphorical-cavalry of the Asha'man. Which is awesome because it makes perfect sense, but you didn't know beforehand they'd be ready, so it comes off as a pay-off, not a deus-ex-machina, and because they're so creepy and effective. And because it's very much a "yay" scene, and yet, it's actually really creepy because you KNOW this whole "black tower" thing is going to have BAD repercussions.
Other interpersonal friendships
Many of the relationships I feel like you're supposed to care about -- the relationships between characters shown interacting a lot -- are too heavy handed. And I'm constantly frustrated that Rand is so isolated, when there's his friends really close, but always separated from actually spending time from him. He really needs some camaraderie from Matt and Perrin, which he only gets a bit from the Aiel chiefs, and whichever girl is currently spending time with him.
Loial would be perfect for this. He's knowledgeable about all sorts of things, but doesn't have that much of a role in the books. He could do the world tremendous good by simply following Rand around and being nice and non-judgemental to him. Obviously the plot requires Rand to be somewhat isolated, but the means of doing so are sometimes contrived.
However, there's lots of relationships that really moved me, despite being painted by only a passing word here or there. Rand and Lan's relationship was only a few words, but it was awesome because Lan went out of his way to help Rand just because, just to grease the wheels of the universe a it, and because it was so understated, it wasn't corrupted by trying to manipulate each other, which just about every other relationship Rand has is.
Similarly, it was actually touching the few times he chatted to Asmodeon. That's actually really sad, that the nearest thing he had to a confidant was his captured enemy. But was the only person at the time he could talk to at all. I feel like Jordan wasn't trying to push any specific agenda, and so relaxed and let some real human warmth come into those few phrases.
Likewise, I thought Taim was really interesting, and it was really disappointing when it was confirmed he is actually evil. I thought the adversarial relationship between him and Rand, and the rest of the Asha'man was interesting. But then it just gets predictably doomed: Rand lets him run the black tower all by himself, and I wanted Taim to be arrogant and ruthless, but reluctantly efficient, but it actually seems he's... secretly working for a forsaken, and showing this between switching randomly between "work with Rand and built morally-questionable but loyal-to-Rand black tower" and "plot to kill Rand" rather than any sort of coherent characterisation.
I thought the same thing about Verin. She's always so coolly unflappable, and such a scientist, that I really loved her, and actually resented the books when it started being more complicated than that.
The forsaken
It's not clear how much of the forsaken's random squabbling is deliberate portrayal of their weaknesses and how much is just poor characterisation. But if you take some of it as face value: that they are powerful enemies, but also corrupt and venal, you can almost feel sorry for the Lord of the Dark.
The Dark One is promulgating a somewhat inconsistent, but at least deeply held plan to (I think) unravel the fabric of reality. But he has to work through the forsaken, and none of them actually like him, they just squabble about precedence and luxury. If you accept this as an actual situation and not just a plot contrivance, that must really suck.
Ishamael is the most powerful, maddest, and evillest of the forsaken, but also the only one who actually seems devoted to the Dark One. All the others would probably be happier if the Dark One just went away, if they were left with a little city to rule somewhere and drink wine.
Ishamael is also the only one at all prone to philosophy or introspection. Obviously he's evil, and out of touch with sanity, but he and Rand are about the only ones interested in the cosmology: what the ages of the world are, how the seals work, etc. You wish they could actually have a brief chat before killing each other, because everyone else is all "Sworn enemy! Die!" but without actually any thought into the whole light/dark thing.
I like Rand's incipient madness a lot. It ebbs and flows somewhat inconsistently, and is presumably not realistic, but does a good job of making someone feel creepy but functional, and of someone sometimes playing up and playing down their eccentricities depending on the situation.
I also like Rand's obsession over the Maidens of the Spear who have died. It's possibly bad of me to like this even though it's embracing an unfortunate stereotype, but it chilled me a lot because (a) everyone ADMITS it's arbitrary, even Rand (b) he doesn't go off and fuck everything up by trying to be subtle; he tried to leave the women out of the battle, they notice and call him out for pissing on their honour, he admits he was wrong and accepts them, but then agonises about it (c) he recognises that it's a completely ridiculous thing to do, but still obsesses over it, and, well, he IS going mad, I found it very touching that he kept paying for his (correct) decision inside, and it adds a marvellous martyred hero air. I don't know what it says about me that I empathised so strongly with someone bottling up an unanswerable obsession.
(Conversely, his continued reluctance to kill enemies -- who perpetrate mass murder, torture, and the unravelling of the thread of reality, repeatedly, every time he lets them go -- because they're women is just frustrating and tedious, because it doesn't ADD anything to his character, it just fucks up the plot.)
Climax of LoC
I found the end of Lord of Chaos, where Rand is kidnapped in the box, and rescued, the most moving climax of the whole series, despite not having any of the usual forsaken. The normal pattern of a climax is that people faff about for the whole book, and then suddenly something happens and they're thrown into the middle of a magic duel they don't understand, which they win by pulling some previous-unseen power out of a hat under stress. Which is not _that_ satisfying.
Whereas, here, the kidnap-Rand plot is actually a really good plot. In retrospect, it's really obvious, but beforehand it's totally not obvious what's going to happen. It stands alone with maybe one other as a plot which is well-thought-out and well-executed (if in a wrong-headed aim).
And then the forces of light don't win because they pull something out of their hat; they win because lots of different people care about Rand, Perrin and the two-rivers people, many but not all of the Aiel, some Aes Sedai, even some of the Cairhienian nobles who have no specific reason to, but are grateful to him, and all make a concerted effort to do something about it. People work together for one of the few times.
And then they're rescued by the metaphorical-cavalry of the Asha'man. Which is awesome because it makes perfect sense, but you didn't know beforehand they'd be ready, so it comes off as a pay-off, not a deus-ex-machina, and because they're so creepy and effective. And because it's very much a "yay" scene, and yet, it's actually really creepy because you KNOW this whole "black tower" thing is going to have BAD repercussions.
Other interpersonal friendships
Many of the relationships I feel like you're supposed to care about -- the relationships between characters shown interacting a lot -- are too heavy handed. And I'm constantly frustrated that Rand is so isolated, when there's his friends really close, but always separated from actually spending time from him. He really needs some camaraderie from Matt and Perrin, which he only gets a bit from the Aiel chiefs, and whichever girl is currently spending time with him.
Loial would be perfect for this. He's knowledgeable about all sorts of things, but doesn't have that much of a role in the books. He could do the world tremendous good by simply following Rand around and being nice and non-judgemental to him. Obviously the plot requires Rand to be somewhat isolated, but the means of doing so are sometimes contrived.
However, there's lots of relationships that really moved me, despite being painted by only a passing word here or there. Rand and Lan's relationship was only a few words, but it was awesome because Lan went out of his way to help Rand just because, just to grease the wheels of the universe a it, and because it was so understated, it wasn't corrupted by trying to manipulate each other, which just about every other relationship Rand has is.
Similarly, it was actually touching the few times he chatted to Asmodeon. That's actually really sad, that the nearest thing he had to a confidant was his captured enemy. But was the only person at the time he could talk to at all. I feel like Jordan wasn't trying to push any specific agenda, and so relaxed and let some real human warmth come into those few phrases.
Likewise, I thought Taim was really interesting, and it was really disappointing when it was confirmed he is actually evil. I thought the adversarial relationship between him and Rand, and the rest of the Asha'man was interesting. But then it just gets predictably doomed: Rand lets him run the black tower all by himself, and I wanted Taim to be arrogant and ruthless, but reluctantly efficient, but it actually seems he's... secretly working for a forsaken, and showing this between switching randomly between "work with Rand and built morally-questionable but loyal-to-Rand black tower" and "plot to kill Rand" rather than any sort of coherent characterisation.
I thought the same thing about Verin. She's always so coolly unflappable, and such a scientist, that I really loved her, and actually resented the books when it started being more complicated than that.
The forsaken
It's not clear how much of the forsaken's random squabbling is deliberate portrayal of their weaknesses and how much is just poor characterisation. But if you take some of it as face value: that they are powerful enemies, but also corrupt and venal, you can almost feel sorry for the Lord of the Dark.
The Dark One is promulgating a somewhat inconsistent, but at least deeply held plan to (I think) unravel the fabric of reality. But he has to work through the forsaken, and none of them actually like him, they just squabble about precedence and luxury. If you accept this as an actual situation and not just a plot contrivance, that must really suck.
Ishamael is the most powerful, maddest, and evillest of the forsaken, but also the only one who actually seems devoted to the Dark One. All the others would probably be happier if the Dark One just went away, if they were left with a little city to rule somewhere and drink wine.
Ishamael is also the only one at all prone to philosophy or introspection. Obviously he's evil, and out of touch with sanity, but he and Rand are about the only ones interested in the cosmology: what the ages of the world are, how the seals work, etc. You wish they could actually have a brief chat before killing each other, because everyone else is all "Sworn enemy! Die!" but without actually any thought into the whole light/dark thing.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-22 09:34 am (UTC)The Forsaken are just a bunch who are incapable of having equals in their own eyes. Which probably says a lot about why they are EVIL and also why they SUCK. I didn't find that very unrealistic, although they are annoying.
I think Ishydin is fairly clearly the only Forsaken whose actually bought the whole "the world should end, and end forever and everyone should end, and it should ALL JUST STOP" nihilism thing. The others just come over as wanting to Rule The World, and having joined the Evil Brigade because it offered power and stuff.