jack: (Default)
[personal profile] jack
I saw this as a "writer's block" blogging prompt on Livejournal. At first I was shocked: wasn't that just rampant American-centrism? And then I thought, was that just my own English-centrism?

England has never really become independent of anywhere, except perhaps the Roman Empire, but I don't think that has a good story and authoritative date attached (?)

But is it reasonable to assume that most countries have (at least one) independence day? And that its named and commemorated in a similar manner to America? Wikipedia has quite a comprehensive list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_independence_days) which covers surprisingly many countries (with some number of notable exceptions, UK, Russia, China, Australia[1]...)

[1] Which may yet get there one day :)

Date: 2011-07-04 06:41 pm (UTC)
rmc28: Rachel in hockey gear on the frozen fen at Upware, near Cambridge (Default)
From: [personal profile] rmc28
An awful lot of those independence days are independence from the UK. Perhaps we need lots of "That Bit Less Imperialist" parties each year.

Date: 2011-07-04 06:57 pm (UTC)
the_future_modernes: a yellow train making a turn on a bridge (Default)
From: [personal profile] the_future_modernes
Between Britain and Spain and Belgium and many other Western countries pulling off the "lets invade and steal everything and everyone we can get our hands on" on a whole lot of the earth...I'd say yes, that is some English-centrism there.

Date: 2011-07-05 08:21 pm (UTC)
the_future_modernes: a yellow train making a turn on a bridge (Default)
From: [personal profile] the_future_modernes
I will definitely give you that. The question was badly posed.

Date: 2011-07-05 09:26 am (UTC)
ptc24: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ptc24
On the list, there are also several independences from Russia (does Russia count as Western?) or the USSR, several independences from Yugoslavia, some independences from the Ottoman Empire (there might have be more had the Ottoman Empire not failed to be the last imperial power ruling over various places, see for example all the independences from Yugoslavia), some joint independences (e.g from Japan and France, from Egypt and the United Kingdom), some independences from distinctly non-Western states such as Japan, Ethiopia, and Haiti, some complicated situations like the Namibian independence from apartheid-era South Africa...

Also on the map there are some notable non-Western countries without Independence days as such; notables include Japan, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, (does Russia count as Western?)...

It seems likely that a majority of people live in countries celebrating some sort of Independence Day; Western Europe is a bit odd in that it consists of countries that don't - however this is merely going against the trend, rather than being some strange exception.

Date: 2011-07-05 08:16 pm (UTC)
the_future_modernes: a yellow train making a turn on a bridge (Default)
From: [personal profile] the_future_modernes
Western Europe is a bit odd in that it consists of countries that don't - however this is merely going against the trend, rather than being some strange exception.

Not saying it is a strange exception. Am saying that its not necessarily US-centrism to inquire about independence day. The question could have been better worded, but too many of the answers erased the rest of us. You are right about the non-Western European imperialists as well.

Date: 2011-07-04 09:42 pm (UTC)
morwen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] morwen
Well, England was founded after the withdrawal of the Roman Empire from this island, and, yes, both those things were gradual processes rather than specific events. So it really doesn't work.

Possibly May 1, as the union of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland? But that date is taken already here!

Date: 2011-07-05 09:07 am (UTC)
ptc24: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ptc24
Of course, some of the independence days are independence from the colonial oppressor, some are independence so that the settlers can be the colonial oppressors without interference from the mother country, some independences happened so long ago, or prior to real nationhood (see for example Spain), or with intervening events that complicate things (see for example Serbia) that independence days aren't really the thing.

Date: 2011-07-05 03:48 pm (UTC)
jae: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jae
Former American, now Canadian (for years) perspective: your first instinct was right. That question only assumes that most countries have at least one Independence Day, it also assumes that it's something one necessarily celebrates, and that the appropriate day to ask about it is July 4th. And then there's the question's title...I mean, it takes a pretty biased American eye not to recognize that as total U.S.-centrism.

Not that I don't admire your efforts to not be English-centric, mind. Most "-centrisms" need a bit less knee-jerking!

-J (currently in England, oddly enough)
Edited (spelling) Date: 2011-07-05 05:32 pm (UTC)

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