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jackNudity in the TV series
I thought some of the nudity was very natural. Tyrion or someone going out and having a night of debauchery is one of the things that was implicit in the books, but a lot more vivid when you actually see it.
But on the other hand, some was rather gratuitous. The first time Dany was with Drogo, the camera stayed for extended shots of her, which seemed inappropriate and wrong: we're not supposed to be enjoying this, couldn't the same message be conveyed equally well without any nudity?
Dany and Drogo, vs Cersei and Robert
It occurred to me that in many ways Dany and Drogo, and Cersei and Robert are in quite a similar situation, except that we learn about the first from Dany's point of view, and the second more from Robert's.
But we get to Cersei's point of view late. We start off just knowing her as scheming and conniving. But when we get to her viewpoint, we learn that she was frustrated that she wasn't groomed for combat and ruling like Jaime. And that she was happy to be married to Robert, but that he'd never really cared for her other than as a random trophy, and was generally disgusted by him. And when the secret about her children starts to come out, she's probably right to say that if she'd just let events take their course, her children stood a good chance of being killed, and it's hard to say she was wrong for taking chances, even dangerous ones, to prevent that.
Of course, she does mess up a lot. She's way too ready to assume the right answer to something is "I should be in charge of the country". And too ready to kill Robert -- that didn't really help.
I doubt other people saw it the way I did, but I found it ever so moving when I realised that this person who'd been previously presented as an "other" was suddenly very sympathetic.
Of course, the trouble is, that people are right that in the first book she and the other Lannisters aren't really presented as anything other than villains. You can read it as Ned being as flawed as the Lannisters in different ways, but nothing makes you do so, and we mostly naturally read it in a "Starks = good, Lannisters = bad" way.
I thought some of the nudity was very natural. Tyrion or someone going out and having a night of debauchery is one of the things that was implicit in the books, but a lot more vivid when you actually see it.
But on the other hand, some was rather gratuitous. The first time Dany was with Drogo, the camera stayed for extended shots of her, which seemed inappropriate and wrong: we're not supposed to be enjoying this, couldn't the same message be conveyed equally well without any nudity?
Dany and Drogo, vs Cersei and Robert
It occurred to me that in many ways Dany and Drogo, and Cersei and Robert are in quite a similar situation, except that we learn about the first from Dany's point of view, and the second more from Robert's.
But we get to Cersei's point of view late. We start off just knowing her as scheming and conniving. But when we get to her viewpoint, we learn that she was frustrated that she wasn't groomed for combat and ruling like Jaime. And that she was happy to be married to Robert, but that he'd never really cared for her other than as a random trophy, and was generally disgusted by him. And when the secret about her children starts to come out, she's probably right to say that if she'd just let events take their course, her children stood a good chance of being killed, and it's hard to say she was wrong for taking chances, even dangerous ones, to prevent that.
Of course, she does mess up a lot. She's way too ready to assume the right answer to something is "I should be in charge of the country". And too ready to kill Robert -- that didn't really help.
I doubt other people saw it the way I did, but I found it ever so moving when I realised that this person who'd been previously presented as an "other" was suddenly very sympathetic.
Of course, the trouble is, that people are right that in the first book she and the other Lannisters aren't really presented as anything other than villains. You can read it as Ned being as flawed as the Lannisters in different ways, but nothing makes you do so, and we mostly naturally read it in a "Starks = good, Lannisters = bad" way.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-21 09:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-22 08:58 am (UTC)I guess I mostly agree with all that. (When you're in someone's head it's easy to forget the number of people she has killed :)) But I still feel sorry for her, because I don't know if I could have done better in her situation.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-22 12:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-24 07:36 pm (UTC)I think a very telling thing for me - and a reason to have some sympathy for her - was her talking about Robert really wanting Lyanna rather than her. How can she compete with a dead woman? And I suspect that more than a decade of being married to someone who is not interested in you *and* you can't respect (Robert plainly being not a good king) might make you more likely to scheme and act out of frustration. I think that if Robert had been a more competent king, things would have been very different. Not that it's his fault that Cersei turns out the way she does, but I think he's a major contributing factor.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-24 07:59 pm (UTC)