Campaign (see previous post)
Feb. 26th, 2007 08:52 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackBased in Cambridge in our world is a small-medium cooperative agency employing about thirty people on and off, who hire out small teams of fighters, wizards, etc in other worlds to solve problems of all sorts. Most are from this world, a couple from Sun City, a few from other worlds with regular traffic. In exchange for a week of risk, danger, adventure and excitement you're paid enough to live very very comfortably at home the rest of the time. Most recently you're asked to join a team sent to Sun City.
Sun City, about the size of London, but with weather more like LA. A horrendous mix of modern amenities, mediavel architecture and weapons, and the occasional android, like every children's scifi cartoon you've ever seen. Fairly modern, though the concentration of fighters, wizards, etc make modern weapons useless, and the world a touch more dangerous and whole lot more fun.
Most people are ok if they keep their wits about them, and *you* can make mincemeat out of anyone harrassing you, but there's plenty of dark corners the police haven't figured out how to get rid of yet that'll cut off your nose if you poke it in uncautiously (large animals lurking in the bushes and snatching tourists and tramps, sinister temples, undead-infested under-sewers, touchy wizards who like their privacy). And of course, if you make too much of a fuss the police will talk to *you* -- they're not *all* canon fodder.
In the Big Tibet quarter, a variety of eastern-ish temples have slowly accumulated. The Temple of the Bright Sun, and Church of the Gibbous Moon are both descended from the same sect. The Church now specialise in serving cosmic balance by summoning minor demons and elementals to do their work for them, though are not one hundred percent good at this. The Temple now specialise in achieving enlightenment by being able to backflip and punch bricks.
The original sect used to revere an idol, a gold baby inset with jewels, with vague but impressive powers. Centuries ago some temples of the original sect got too uppity, and it was broken up, the idol being broken into several pieces and lost. The Church seek the idol for enlightenment and temporal power; the Temple think it is a distraction, dangerous, and an embarrassment and would prefer it remain lost.
Now rumours abound about where the pieces might be. At least one is thought to be in Sun City, and at least one in another world. The Temple hear the Church may be close to finding it, and hire your agency to do so first.
Notable NPCs. The mentor, Fyron. Only a couple of levels higher than you, but semi-retired, on retainer to the university, but kept around in the agency for advice and occasional support. Often the middle-man in arranging clients and teams.. Thin, generally wearing a crumpled suit and sometimes academic dress. Catchphrases: "Did you know the romans did that too?" and "My god, what did you get yourselves into now? OK, tell me everything and I'll see what I can do."
The guide, S. Zen. A monk of the Temple of the Bright Sun, assigned to show you round the temple and answer general questions. Tall, fit, generally wearing shell-suit trousers under a yellow robe. Quite good at hitting things, and full of childlike enthusiasm. He precipitously rushes in where he sees something that needs doing, and is eternally keen to try out a new weapon he really hasn't been trained with, even when he'd be a lot more effective with his bare hands. Catchphrases: "Whoah, dude, that's so cool. Can I have a go?" and "I'll save you, miss. Kiai-charge!"
Of course, this is all off the top of my head and would be changed round depending what sort of campaign I find we want.
Sun City, about the size of London, but with weather more like LA. A horrendous mix of modern amenities, mediavel architecture and weapons, and the occasional android, like every children's scifi cartoon you've ever seen. Fairly modern, though the concentration of fighters, wizards, etc make modern weapons useless, and the world a touch more dangerous and whole lot more fun.
Most people are ok if they keep their wits about them, and *you* can make mincemeat out of anyone harrassing you, but there's plenty of dark corners the police haven't figured out how to get rid of yet that'll cut off your nose if you poke it in uncautiously (large animals lurking in the bushes and snatching tourists and tramps, sinister temples, undead-infested under-sewers, touchy wizards who like their privacy). And of course, if you make too much of a fuss the police will talk to *you* -- they're not *all* canon fodder.
In the Big Tibet quarter, a variety of eastern-ish temples have slowly accumulated. The Temple of the Bright Sun, and Church of the Gibbous Moon are both descended from the same sect. The Church now specialise in serving cosmic balance by summoning minor demons and elementals to do their work for them, though are not one hundred percent good at this. The Temple now specialise in achieving enlightenment by being able to backflip and punch bricks.
The original sect used to revere an idol, a gold baby inset with jewels, with vague but impressive powers. Centuries ago some temples of the original sect got too uppity, and it was broken up, the idol being broken into several pieces and lost. The Church seek the idol for enlightenment and temporal power; the Temple think it is a distraction, dangerous, and an embarrassment and would prefer it remain lost.
Now rumours abound about where the pieces might be. At least one is thought to be in Sun City, and at least one in another world. The Temple hear the Church may be close to finding it, and hire your agency to do so first.
Notable NPCs. The mentor, Fyron. Only a couple of levels higher than you, but semi-retired, on retainer to the university, but kept around in the agency for advice and occasional support. Often the middle-man in arranging clients and teams.. Thin, generally wearing a crumpled suit and sometimes academic dress. Catchphrases: "Did you know the romans did that too?" and "My god, what did you get yourselves into now? OK, tell me everything and I'll see what I can do."
The guide, S. Zen. A monk of the Temple of the Bright Sun, assigned to show you round the temple and answer general questions. Tall, fit, generally wearing shell-suit trousers under a yellow robe. Quite good at hitting things, and full of childlike enthusiasm. He precipitously rushes in where he sees something that needs doing, and is eternally keen to try out a new weapon he really hasn't been trained with, even when he'd be a lot more effective with his bare hands. Catchphrases: "Whoah, dude, that's so cool. Can I have a go?" and "I'll save you, miss. Kiai-charge!"
Of course, this is all off the top of my head and would be changed round depending what sort of campaign I find we want.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-27 05:45 pm (UTC)I've had a few thoughts about a potential character concept; would you like to hear them?
no subject
Date: 2007-02-27 05:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-27 06:33 pm (UTC)The basic principle is that of a split consciousness; essentially a single entity existing within two bodies. I realise this could be potentially game breaking, so right off the bat I'll say I'm not looking for any major bonuses; I'd still make attacks per round etc. like a single person. In D&D terms, I would think a -2 to dexterity (for the difficulties in coordinating so many limbs), a +1 to charisma (because two people are more convincing than one), and maybe a +1 to spot/listen for the extra senses.
Now as for the character itself, I'm thinking two extreme goth girls; both have very pale skin and very dark hair and tend to wear much black. However, one is a small child (5-6 ish) and looks a bit like this, while the other is a late teenager (18-19).
Now, the teenager often speaks in a flowery voice about teddy bears, fluffy things and candy, and has a rather simplistic view on life eg. "Why can't everyone just be nice?"
The little girl doesn't often speak, but when she does, it's in a deep and surreal voice, often morbid yet practical eg. "You could wear its skin to keep warm." The rest of the time, especially during combat, she curses up a blue streak.
If we do go D&D, she'd be a rogue/barbarian, simply because the image of an unassuming little girl breaking out into a vicious rage with twin butcher knives is one that appeals to me greatly.
The individual bodies would have seperate names, and the entity as a whole would have a sort of plural name. She would get upset if you got her names wrong.
I may or may not also want to play a mostly ineffectual familiar, who may or may not be a sarcastic, snobby male toad with aspirations above his station eg. "Let me at them! I can take the fire giant all by myself!"
As a beta community for a game I participate in says, this is mostly 'flavour'; concepts which don't really affect game balance but allows for roleplaying opportunities.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-27 07:13 pm (UTC)The basic principle is that of a split consciousness;
OK, that's a very cool idea. Unreasonably complex, but that's all to the good as far as I'm concerned :) I want to try this. I'm not sure how it'll work out, I fear it might be too complicated to keep the two sides straight, but lets try.
Do you have any idea of how that came about? Not that it would make a difference, but it affects how I imagine it.
As for stats, my first reaction is to say they *should* be different people mechanically. Either based off a lower level, or with some drawbacks to make up for it. The problem being, having two many characters acting in a round slows everything down.
Abstracting them away into a single set of stats would make sense, if you can think of a good reason why they'd always be together. But I don't really like it.
Or how about a shared soul, but that only really animate one at once? Both can talk, but either one acts and the other is slack, or both act at a big penalty?
I may or may not also want to play a mostly ineffectual familiar,
I don't mind adding a pet per se, but I tend to think playing three characters would just be two complicated. And besides, while I like the snobby toad, *everyone* has a pet who's mostly ineffectual with aspirations. I suggest sticking to the girls, and suggesting a toad if anyone is a wizard or druid?
As a beta community for a game I participate in says,
A beta community? As in, beta reader for dnd?
no subject
Date: 2007-02-27 09:58 pm (UTC)I hope to be able to make that clear through voice acting; I've been told I'm quite talented, but we'll see.
Abstracting them away into a single set of stats would make sense, if you can think of a good reason why they'd always be together. But I don't really like it.
Or how about a shared soul, but that only really animate one at once? Both can talk, but either one acts and the other is slack, or both act at a big penalty?I tend to think playing three characters would just be two complicated.
What can I say? I just like to have a lot of personas.
A beta community? As in, beta reader for dnd?
*shakes head* A 'game I participate in' is an online MMORPG unrelated to D&D. But the concepts are the same; I've become quite familiar with introducing new concepts without screwing up game balance.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-28 12:14 am (UTC)Did you think anything about the mechanics for the twin-girl?
no subject
Date: 2007-02-28 06:51 am (UTC)Precisely!
Did you think anything about the mechanics for the twin-girl?
Well, I want to try and stick as close to the mechanics of a character of equal level as possible. So, there are lots of things she can't do that two people could. For example, flanking, and skill synergy don't apply, as she can't concentrate enough on them (perhaps you could grant a feat which later gave her some limited ability in that respect? Or too powerful?)
For combat, while there would be two pieces on the board, the entity as a whole only gets one move and one standard action in a regular round, so she could move one body and attack with the other, or move both, but not attack with both.
However, this has the added disadvantage of two targets, and two bodies which my hypothetically strained consciousness has to try and keep dodging. It might be the case that, if one body is being attacked, it's possible for the other body to be flanked with a single person, and the body that isn't currently moving loses it's dex bonus to AC... Although that might be too much of a nerf.
Perhaps to counteract this, it might help if spells casted with a single target affect both bodies.
The most pertinent issue in my mind is that of damage. I'd like for them to be abstracted into a single set of stats... and if they were two seperate people in regards to combat, I'd have a distinct advantage (ie. you paralyse one body, the other simply becomes more focused and knows to attack the paralyser). Perhaps, because the damage is experienced by the entity regardless of the body, any attack on either body would drain a collective hit point total, and thus both would faint and die at the same time.
And, just to make life a little easier, we could easily put a restriction on the bodies that they can't be more than x feet apart. Because, hey, who likes to have their consciousness stretched so much?
Your thoughts? Anything I've missed?
no subject
Date: 2007-02-28 03:57 pm (UTC)Can I ask why? To keep things simple and not take up more time than other players, or to not risk game balance? Or both? It sounds fine whichever way you want to go, but it affects what I suggest :)
As a mathmo I instinctively want a general template I could apply in other situations if I wanted. So I'm exploring this in more depth necessary than for the campaign. But then I'm sure we could work it out.
After all, in dnd, a sixth level druid (hd 6d8+con, bab +4, plus equipment plus spells) could have a six hd wolf animal companion (hd 6d8+con, bab +4, 15 str/dex/con but no equipment) trained to fight, that's practically two characters, can flank and "aid other". Two fourth level barbarians (supposedly equal power to one sixth level character) would both have hd 4d12, bab+4, both with equipment. That's almost exactly the same as the druid/companion (the druid also gets spells and wildshape, the barbarians also get rage and the ability to split up). Something equivalent to those two would sound ok imho.
You can also say 90% of the time they act together, and have stats for that so you don't have to work it out every time. In dnd terms, have the standard tactic be they flank and one aids the other for +4 to hit, so the gestalt would have effective bab +8 (which sounds about in line with a single barbarian, being +2 in favorable situations). And say you can attack two people at once, and if you take the two-weapon fighting feat that's -4/-4 to attack, or exactly what the two individual barbarians would get :)
There's details to work out, but we know what we want to gestalt to look like, so we can work back from there. Does that make sense?
I'm still thinking about non-combat. Of course, it would be fine to say they always stay next to each other, lose consciousness together, and have some standard saves as a combination. But that's not necessarily most fun, if you'd like to see them able to split up you could craft appropriate drawbacks.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-28 04:38 pm (UTC)Both. If everyone else has a sixth level character, and I have two, I'm basically better than everyone else, and take up more of the combat round.
-And- I don't really want two seperate D&D characters; I proposed the idea for the roleplaying opportunity rather than any potential stat tweaks I might enjoy.
There's details to work out, but we know what we want to gestalt to look like, so we can work back from there. Does that make sense?
If what you're saying is that we can craft the numbers to get what we want, then yes. Otherwise, no.
if you'd like to see them able to split up you could craft appropriate drawbacks.
I think a decent model is one of a consciousness 'cloud', where the body has to be enveloped in the cloud to function. It can move and stretch, but only to a certain extent, and the 'thinner' it stretches itself, the less control it has (this would amount to some circumstance penalty to saves, attacks etc.)
If the bodies are seperated, it could well be that only one can be conscious at a time; the entity simply can't stretch far enough. So if the teenager is kidnapped, the party would be subject to a five year old barbarian utterly freaking out =P
For the purposes of saves, I say under ordinary circumstances they share a save, as the reflex of one will be equivalent to that of the other. However, if some strenuous activity is performed (anything that involves delicate and/or powerful movement, or concentration), it might be that the character I'm focusing on is granted a +2 to saves, while the slack one takes a -2 penalty.
If you're the sort of DM who likes the "You've been stabbed in the eye. You're now blind!" style of play, we could try to keep track of which one is injured where, but I think it'll be simpler to have a simple hit point total.
We could work out precise details on Sunday/Monday.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-28 05:01 pm (UTC)Yeah. But don't worry I'll only propose things in line with a normal power level. The concept could be *open* to abuse, but only if you try hard, and you're not going to do that :)
take up more of the combat round.
That's what I'd like to avoid, there can so easily be too much faff with ordinary classes already :)
I proposed the idea for the roleplaying opportunity rather than any potential stat tweaks I might enjoy.
Sorry, yes, I know. And is good. I know it's not *necessary* but I like to have the idea straight in my head so when -- inevitably -- it comes up (eg. someone is kidnapped and wants to fight her way out), I'll have some idea of what she should be able to do and some rules to apply. And also, it might be useful some other time. One day I might have characters who meld into a GIANT ROBOT :)
I think a decent model is one of a consciousness 'cloud', where the body has to be enveloped in the cloud to function.
Hah, ok, I like that idea. That makes sense to me.
If you're the sort of DM who likes the "You've been stabbed in the eye. You're now blind!" style of play
Actually, I haven't played *very much* so I'm still not sure what sort of DM I am... Keeping track of things in general terms (eg. you are attacked by forty kobolds. *eschews dice* 5% of them make a critical hit...) makes sense. But you should certainly have the possibility of one body go through a door first and zapped by a fireball, and fall unconscious, leaving the other to act as best she can...
We could work out precise details on Sunday/Monday.
Yeah. (I do hope we'll get together. There's half a dozen people *hopefully* playing, but I'm not exactly sure who really will. I should let you know shortly). We should get together to talk about idea (though that's mostly sorted) but the mechanics will only be boring to other people :)
Option 4 -- ok, this sounds ok
Date: 2007-02-28 06:02 pm (UTC)The two girls have different bodies, but invariably are right next to each other, participating in the same conversation. Often they work together like one person with four arms, which in a way they are, even if they also react to things differently sometimes too. In combat they'll almost always be fighting together, surrounding someone or going back to back.
When they're separated by about 10 feet they become distressed. Any more and one falls unconscious, the gestalt animating only the other. If she chooses, or if she's knocked unconscious, the gestalt can find its way back to the other, but with difficulty.
Mechanics
In DND terms, when they're together they act as a 6th level barbarian (or other level/class), and spells, traps, etc act on them both together. Damage is assumed to affect them equally, so in normal combat they will be knocked unconscious at the same time. The exceptions are:
(i) If one acts individually (either because the other is there but not doing anything, or because they're separated) she has half the hit points, half the attack bonus, and half the strength bonus.
(ii) If a non-area attack saps half the remaining hit points at once, one girl is assumed knocked unconscious.
(iii) If a non-mental spell affects only one creature, it does. Eg. a ghoul touch would paralyse one but not the other. (But damage is just treated like normal)
Does that sound simple enough?
Re: Option 4 -- ok, this sounds ok
Date: 2007-02-28 10:32 pm (UTC)Although the 10 feet limit to unconsciousness is a bit steep. If I get bull rushed I'll lose have my stats and won't get it back until my other body recovers.
I think 10 feet is sufficient for causing distress, and beyond that, act as if individual (half stats), but don't lose consciousness until a much greater distance (25 feet?) so both my bodies can make efforts to be reconnected.
Re: Option 4 -- ok, this sounds ok
Date: 2007-03-01 02:09 am (UTC)If I get bull rushed I'll lose have my stats and won't get it back until my other body recovers.
Of course, the rules as they were written don't *let* you be bull-rushed, because you act as a Barbarian and you can't bull rush only half of a character :) And even if you were, you're not wiped out -- one of your bodies will still be conscious, and the other is only incapacitated so long as it's 10' away, if you can rejoin, you would have been immediately ok.
But yes, that compromise is fine. I only suggested unconsciousness because it fit the flavour and because if they *can* act separately I'd rather have some proper stats for it, but saying half-stats is ok for now, as it won't come up often.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-28 04:44 pm (UTC)N'th level Tchukk (in honour of the Schlock Mercenary cartoons) template
Option #1.
The girls lose consciousness when separated by more than 10ft. She can work together on something, but not concentrate on two things at once. Mechanically she's treated as a single entity with the stats of an N'th level barbarian. (Presumably with two weapon fighting! :))
Option #2.
The girls have separate hit points, separate equipment, separate enhancements, and separate but identical ability scores, as those of an (N-2) level barbarian. They can separate, and tag-team opponents, but mind-altering magic affects both of them.
I'm not sure I know enough to balance this. Telepathic link is a pretty good ability, as is being in two places at once. Sometimes having attacks apply separately would be good, sometimes bad. But you need twice as much equipment and support spells. And lose half your effectiveness at half hit points, or on failing a save.
If you felt it was too strong you would lose other class abilities (probably a good idea to keep things simple) and give some penalties to doing anything at once. If you felt it was too weak you could keep the abilities, or make an (N-1) level.
You can also have a "fighting at once" stat sheet so when you collaborate (as you do most of the time) it doesn't take any more effort to sort out.
Option #3.
As #2, but they share hp and saves and spells and enhancements, and take a penalty for each 10ft away from each other they are.
That should be about the same, but less bookkeeping, and more being the same person.
Modifications
You should probably adjust some saves up and down, but I'm not sure which.
Conclusions
I don't even know if this campaign *will* get off the ground, so I should stop thinking about it :) It's just interesting. Either option would be ok mechanically, #1 would be easiest, but less expressive. Which fits the idea best?