(no subject)
Jan. 28th, 2008 02:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jackThe King asked
The Queen, and
The Queen asked
The Dairymaid:
"Could we have some butter for
The Royal slice of bread?"
The Queen asked the Dairymaid,
The Dairymaid
Said, "Certainly,
I'll go and tell the cow
Now
Before she goes to bed."
http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/562.html
At poohsoc last week we had a reading from a book of Milne music, amongst other things analysing the timeline of this poem. It was very very amusing and well written. Alas, I can't remember what the book was called, or I'd try to quote an extract.
Owen, Anna -- do you happen to remember?
However, the basic point at question was, the breakfast seems to be happening in the morning, whereas the asking of the cow[1] for butter seems to take place when the cow is going to bed. The relevant passages in the poem are:
(a) Title, "King's breakfast"
(b) King described as having "bread with butter or marmalade" or "porridge", typically breakfast foods
(c) The king in despair is described as going back to bed
(d) The dairymaid says she'll ask the cow "Before she goes to bed"
(e) The cow is "sleepy"
There are a few interpretations, but none entirely satisfactory. H0 might be described as the null hypothesis. H1 and H2 were the two described in the book (although placed in their scholarly background, rather than in relation to my systematic numbering).
H0. The text is not entirely consistent, conveying the feeling of the events perfectly at the expense of describing a narrative which could actually happen chronologically.
H1. The cow has a nap in the morning.
H2. The events take place over slightly more than a day, the breakfast finally be described being the day *after* the kind is initially disappointed (either because H2a: there is no butter *now* or H2b: there might not be any butter tomorrow ).
H3. The dairymaid says "before she goes to bed" to mean she'll talk with the cow before the end of the day, though in fact is able to do so almost immediately. The cow is sleepy because she has just got up.
H4. The king is in the habit of having is breakfast last thing at night.[4]
All of those explain away all the facts presented, but all have the feeling of being fitted to the facts, rather than the facts naturally flowing from them. None feel unarguably *right*. Can anyone suggest conclusive support for any, or a convincing Fifth Theory?
[1] Note: Alderney is a sort of cow, like a mare[2], not a sort of royal functionary, like a mayor[3]. You may be thinking of "Alderman"
[2] That is, not "It's a sort of cow, in the same way a mare is a sort of cow" because it isn't, but "It's a sort of cow (the sort of cow it is being like a mare (at least compared to a mayor))".
[3] That is, the meaning of the word is not "Alderman". The cow itself may or may not be an Alderman, this isn't stated and is irrelevant to the poem. But since most cows aren't alderbovines, we will provisionally assume it isn't.
[4] Cows are traditionally milked in the morning. Is that biologically necessary, or just so the milk is freshest for a morning breakfast?
The Queen, and
The Queen asked
The Dairymaid:
"Could we have some butter for
The Royal slice of bread?"
The Queen asked the Dairymaid,
The Dairymaid
Said, "Certainly,
I'll go and tell the cow
Now
Before she goes to bed."
http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/562.html
At poohsoc last week we had a reading from a book of Milne music, amongst other things analysing the timeline of this poem. It was very very amusing and well written. Alas, I can't remember what the book was called, or I'd try to quote an extract.
Owen, Anna -- do you happen to remember?
However, the basic point at question was, the breakfast seems to be happening in the morning, whereas the asking of the cow[1] for butter seems to take place when the cow is going to bed. The relevant passages in the poem are:
(a) Title, "King's breakfast"
(b) King described as having "bread with butter or marmalade" or "porridge", typically breakfast foods
(c) The king in despair is described as going back to bed
(d) The dairymaid says she'll ask the cow "Before she goes to bed"
(e) The cow is "sleepy"
There are a few interpretations, but none entirely satisfactory. H0 might be described as the null hypothesis. H1 and H2 were the two described in the book (although placed in their scholarly background, rather than in relation to my systematic numbering).
H0. The text is not entirely consistent, conveying the feeling of the events perfectly at the expense of describing a narrative which could actually happen chronologically.
H1. The cow has a nap in the morning.
H2. The events take place over slightly more than a day, the breakfast finally be described being the day *after* the kind is initially disappointed (either because H2a: there is no butter *now* or H2b: there might not be any butter tomorrow ).
H3. The dairymaid says "before she goes to bed" to mean she'll talk with the cow before the end of the day, though in fact is able to do so almost immediately. The cow is sleepy because she has just got up.
H4. The king is in the habit of having is breakfast last thing at night.[4]
All of those explain away all the facts presented, but all have the feeling of being fitted to the facts, rather than the facts naturally flowing from them. None feel unarguably *right*. Can anyone suggest conclusive support for any, or a convincing Fifth Theory?
[1] Note: Alderney is a sort of cow, like a mare[2], not a sort of royal functionary, like a mayor[3]. You may be thinking of "Alderman"
[2] That is, not "It's a sort of cow, in the same way a mare is a sort of cow" because it isn't, but "It's a sort of cow (the sort of cow it is being like a mare (at least compared to a mayor))".
[3] That is, the meaning of the word is not "Alderman". The cow itself may or may not be an Alderman, this isn't stated and is irrelevant to the poem. But since most cows aren't alderbovines, we will provisionally assume it isn't.
[4] Cows are traditionally milked in the morning. Is that biologically necessary, or just so the milk is freshest for a morning breakfast?
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 03:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 03:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 03:37 pm (UTC)After all, its about getting a buttered slice of bread. A child might be very disappointed when their favourite food isn't available (possibly due to the feeling of not being in control more than the actual lack.) But in most cases would subconsciously know that that might be bad now, but hopefully someone will make it better.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 03:38 pm (UTC)