Eastercon

[jack]

* Eastercn was great fun

* I have some good books, including some old classics and sequels I'm curious about but didn't want to buy, and some duplicates of my most accessible favourites to give away

* The travel was all pretty successful.

* Many nice people I knew went, and I got to know better, which is very nice.

* There were lots of interesting things, I've a whole bunch of percolating questions that'll crop up on

* I went to coffee with China Miéville. I'd tried Iron Council but couldn't get into it, and had the impression of someone like Anne MacCaffrey, but he looks more like Vinnie Jones, and talks like he looks. His guest of honour slot wasn't devoted to anything about him, just here's an essay which recently occurred to me, now I'll talk about it, which was really interesting.

* I described him and Neil Gaiman as stubbornly not convinced that they're not a rockstar (with the charisma to pull it off). Neil failed to be kissed by anyone though, sorry foreeverdirt. (I would have asked him for a kiss to send you if I'd met him, but never did :))

* I wore my cloak increasingly more over the weekend. In my opinion, it went surprisingly well with the blue Hawaiian shirt. Worn inside out it's a lot more science-fictiony, as it's incredibly silver, but blue with flashed of silver lining is definitely the look I like.

* The hotel was very nice. They had mazes of twisty passages, but I liked the decoration, just the right mix of posh, tasteful, nice decoration, but sufficiently interesting not to be boring. And of course, slowly helpful notices appeared, "You are in a maze of twisty passages all alike" in the maze of twisty passages and "Beware of the Leopard" on the leopard statue.

* However, they slightly failed in some ways. I got the impression the staff doing what they regularly did were pleasant and helpful and knew what they were doing, but that they'd drafted in extra staff to deal with the vastly increased number of people for meals, for the extra bars, etc, who were nice, but didn't really know what they were doing.

Eg. when approximately a thousand people all want a glass of beer at once, it may be more helpful to place more emphasis on "serve pint, get exact money, next customer" than mainting the illusion that people will amble past the bar, strike up conversation, and casually mention that perhaps they're a little thirsty and did the bar have anything appropriate, and they'd be sure an appropriate little amount would find it onto the hotel bill later, and can I wait two minutes while you try to get the till to give a receipt? I don't blame the staff (who were obviously helpful, just didn't know enough) or the con committee (who did a great job), it's just a shame the hotel hadn't given some more directed training beforehand.

* I run out of socialising. I'm in a situation where I can just speak to someone standing there and we have lots in common and can speak easily. However only some of the time can I *do* that, after three days, I just stall and listen, without meeting new people.

* And there were a lot of friends there, but none I'm quite close enough to I can just flop with not worrying about whether I'm saying anything or not.

* And several panels had interesting ideas, but were frustrating, as there seemed to be someone waffling and I wanted to shake them, but I had too many different things to say at once and they jammed, me unable to work out what would be really most useful and what wouldn't.

* The "Crossing the steams: What's the difference between scifi or fantasy?" especially. Weston was very funny, and had a good point ("one of the things,and imho the only important one, that defines science-fiction is being rationalistic about physics"), but insisted on making it vociferously rather than consistently, when listening to other people would have been really interesting. And so everyone present only wanted to shoot that down rather than talking about anything else, but it was hopeless.

* I spent four days almost continuously in one building, only going outside just to experience fresh and snow for a couple of minutes each day. I think that's the longest I've spend inside, but can see why Americans and science fiction authors can imagine living entirely inside.

* Thanks to Sebby, who got me half his room in the main hotel, and was a interesting, polite and inoffensive room-mate. I hope you were glad of someone to share with too.

Comments

[pavanne.livejournal.com]

You met China Mieville!

*envies*.

By the way, either Un Lun Dun or The Scar are more accessible Mieville books than Iron Council. Though Un Lun Dun may be just silly for some tastes, it doesn't leave one feeling slightly sick like the others...

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I got the impression that (a) his books aren't as good as you might think from meeting him but (b) I probably started in the wrong place (I picked it up on a whim). But would definitely like to give another one a go.

Most people mentioned Perdito Street Station (which has a great title), but I know essentially nothing about that series and nothing at all about the others. How would you describe them?

[pavanne.livejournal.com]

Well, the first description is 'weird'. Perdido Street Station is one of those books where you spend the first 3-5 chapters figuring out how the world works and why the woman has an insect head. And going 'ewwww' at descriptions of minging citi-ness. And then the next few chapters getting to like the characters, and the rest of the book mostly going 'ewww' at what proceeds to happen to them.

The others are just interesting, and cool, and have enough going on that it's hard to get bored or lost.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I liked him a lot. I saw his guest of honour speech where he talked about people analysing books and all the problems he saw with people saying "don't, it's just a story" because that stops you placing it in a wider content, and I disagreed with a lot, but it was all interesting and insightful and well-articulated[1].

And then I signed up for his kaffeklatch even though I hadn't read any of his books, and again, it was just half-a-dozen people talking to him about a bunch of stuff (al of which are later livejournal essays), but he has something interesting to say on every topic. And has a lot to say, but doesn't make you feel it's definitive (which is good as I often feel it's progress, but still all wrong).

And after the scifi or fantasy panel, several of us and him glommed together just outside to shout about what we wanted to say, but hadn't been able to as the panel has been derailed by arguing with one of the other panellists.

Also, I saw him at the disco, and he had a wonderful groove. (Many people were dancing, but no-one really seemed into it, but he and his girlfriend had "it".)

[1] As MHF put it, he has a wonderful way of saying "I'm not saying blah, that's wrong, but I am saying: foo" that really worked, whereas when most people try, they end up being accursed of being pro or anti blah anyway.

[pogodragon.livejournal.com]

For my money The Scar is the best of his books, closely followed by Perdido Street Station. I failed to finish Iron Council. I also love King Rat, but it is not set in the same universe as the other three. I bought Un Lun Dun this weekend and am looking forward to it, though it's billed as a Young Adult title, so maybe easier to read and more my pace after I've finished with essays and things.

Great weekend though, and I am *so* envious of you meeting Mr Mieville for real, I was too chicken to talk to him when I encountered him in the wild.

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

I have some good books, including some old classics and sequels I'm curious about but didn't want to buy, and some duplicates of my most accessible favourites to give away.

Oh, do tell us what they were.

I went to coffee with China Miéville. I'd tried Iron Council but couldn't get into it, and had the impression of someone like Anne MacCaffrey, but he looks more like Vinnie Jones, and talks like he looks.

I've not met him in person; I have strong feelings, both positive and negative, about his work, such that I have ambitions to at some point write something that's in dialogue with it, if I can get the dialogue away from metaphorically belabouring it about the ears while screaming "You never listen !!!"

* I described him and Neil Gaiman as stubbornly not convinced that they're not a rockstar (with the charisma to pull it off). Neil failed to be kissed by anyone though, sorry foreeverdirt. (I would have asked him for a kiss to send you if I'd met him, but never did :))

I have met Neil, and he is extremely cool; it was in the hotel bar the night before a Minicon actually started, so the people who were around were almost all locals and friends of his, so it was possible to just hang out without the rockstarrishness, which I think is part of why he does relatively few cons these days.

* The hotel was very nice. They had mazes of twisty passages, but I liked the decoration, just the right mix of posh, tasteful, nice decoration, but sufficiently interesting not to be boring. And of course, slowly helpful notices appeared, "You are in a maze of twisty passages all alike" in the maze of twisty passages and "Beware of the Leopard" on the leopard statue.

I have strong feelings about Eastercon venues; Adelphi attendor est. Though mind you, I've not gone to an Eastercon since 1999; papersky was fan GoH at Minicon in 2000, so we went there instead, and did so every subsequent year until I ceased feeling even remotely comfortable going into the US.

I run out of socialising. I'm in a situation where I can just speak to someone standing there and we have lots in common and can speak easily. However only some of the time can I *do* that, after three days, I just stall and listen, without meeting new people.

I can run out of People Stuff energy very fast, but congoing fandom seems to work very differently for me in that than most venues; I think a large part of it is being around so many people who are, in general, very much more willing to get immediately into discussions of matters of substance than most other venues allow - I am lousy at small-talk, and it can be very relaxing when that's not needful.

And several panels had interesting ideas, but were frustrating, as there seemed to be someone waffling and I wanted to shake them, but I had too many different things to say at once and they jammed, me unable to work out what would be really most useful and what wouldn't.

This is, of course, what considered responses to them in your journal before the ideas fade are for.

The "Crossing the steams: What's the difference between scifi or fantasy?" especially. Weston was very funny, and had a good point ("one of the things,and imho the only important one, that defines science-fiction is being rationalistic about physics")

A perennial subject, and a very arguable point; does it make all the sub-D&D fantasy where the magic follows rules so strictyy defined you can almost hear the dice rolling into SF thereby ?

I spent four days almost continuously in one building, only going outside just to experience fresh and snow for a couple of minutes each day. I think that's the longest I've spend inside, but can see why Americans and science fiction authors can imagine living entirely inside.

I've always been indoorsy, because of the ocular albinism thing, but really, a week at -40 C and pretty much anyone will develop a new appreciation for the virtues of inside.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Oh, do tell us what they were.

Classics: First river-world saga, some books by authors I knew but not the book (can't remember which, zelazny? Asimov?)
Sequel: Dave Duncan present tense
Duplicates: Lord of Light and several Bujold.

I have ambitions to at some point write something that's in dialogue with it,

I can imagine :) Although I've no idea what his books *are* like in that way.

I have met Neil, and he is extremely cool;

Ah, cool! You can never tell if someone will be nice in person. It's good to run into someone, I can see he's popular enough it's difficult. One of the lovely things about scifi cons is how much of the time an author *can* come and participate without being mobbed.

But I think the rock-star thing is just a vibe in the way people like him, and the way he is, I imagine it being much the same in person :)

I have strong feelings about Eastercon venues;

I'm not sure what would be best. This worked pretty well -- eg. the hotel obviously helped with things that in other circumstances other people would have had to have done. But I'm sure there must be somewhere more appropriate, but there obviously isn't or cons would run there all the time. A university sounds good -- somewhere with enough auditoria, but also a lot of basic single rooms. But I don't know if any have enough space and competence and fancy bits that are necessary.

I can run out of People Stuff energy very fast, but congoing fandom seems to work very differently for me

Indeed, most of the time, it's great as you don't have to try to make talk, whatever you're thinking is almost certain to interest someone you might talk to.

This is, of course, what considered responses to them in your journal before the ideas fade are for.

Exactly. Expect at least some :)

A perennial subject, and a very arguable point;

Exactly. But it did raise several interesting points, more so than just "We don't know, do we, we'll go on talking about it next year." I think rationality is the core of science-fiction, but not the only science fiction.

[despotliz.livejournal.com]

But I'm sure there must be somewhere more appropriate, but there obviously isn't or cons would run there all the time.

That's the nail on the head, really. Eastercons require a reasonably-sized hotel which will do them a good room rate and not charge too much for function space, and there are various other requirements but it's quite hard to find somewhere at the right size and price. Often there are compromises, but I think the Radisson is a pretty good one. I prefer last year's hotel but it's too small for most Eastercons.

A university sounds good -- somewhere with enough auditoria, but also a lot of basic single rooms. But I don't know if any have enough space and competence and fancy bits that are necessary.

Well, one problem is that they have basic single rooms, but they are not good for doubles or families. A lot of them don't have enough rooms for a big convention under one roof.

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

Although I've no idea what his books *are* like in that way.

Wonderfully inventive, in frequently mildly icky ways; politically very left wing, sometimes with less than entirely successful lack of subtle; consciously rejecting some notions of "consolatory", in ways that to my mind leave the ground littered with wet injured babies [ from being thrown out with the bathwater ]; consciously thuggish, for which I have no sympathy whatsoever - in the way that something like Swordspoint is Fantasy of Manners, I think Mieville may count as Fantasy of Bad Manners.

Ah, cool! You can never tell if someone will be nice in person.

Of the authors I've met, a pleasingly large majority have been extremely nice people; it also seems to be a feature of this subculture that on the rare occasions when someone is known to be a jerk, the information will be disseminated in no uncertain terms.

It's good to run into someone, I can see he's popular enough it's difficult. One of the lovely things about scifi cons is how much of the time an author *can* come and participate without being mobbed.
But I think the rock-star thing is just a vibe in the way people like him, and the way he is, I imagine it being much the same in person

I have the impression he does not go to many cons these days because of finding that aspect a bit tiresome.

I'm not sure what would be best. This worked pretty well -- eg. the hotel obviously helped with things that in other circumstances other people would have had to have done.

The Radisson Escher is a moderately good convention space, I think. Unless it has been remodelled since 1996, the poolside bar works really well as a central space people will pass through and you will see them which is to my mind vital in conventions between a hundred and a couple of thousand people; smaller than that and you don't really need it to find people, but Worldcon-size that just can't be done and you end up having to plan your time intensely to meet anyone at all, which is one reason why I am not so fond of Worldcons as of a comparable amount of time at a smaller con by a long shot.

A university sounds good -- somewhere with enough auditoria, but also a lot of basic single rooms. But I don't know if any have enough space and competence and fancy bits that are necessary.

You might want to keep an eye out for Unicon in summer, then. I've been to several and enjoyed them a lot.

Exactly. But it did raise several interesting points, more so than just "We don't know, do we, we'll go on talking about it next year." I think rationality is the core of science-fiction, but not the only science fiction.

I think the interesting argument to be made there is from the edge cases, because to my mind there are at least three different borders between SF and fantasy; fantasy with SF underwear, where it's rational underneath but has fantasy trappings that may or may not be visible to the characters but are to the reader [ have you read the Steerswoman books ? ]; the sort-of magical realist edge, books like Desolation Road and King's Dark Tower books and "realist magicism" where there is magic that follows clearly defined and manipulable rules.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Of the authors I've met, a pleasingly large majority have been extremely nice people

Indeed. I optimistically hope that's just because most people are nice people. But some people, however nice, are a lot more fun to have a half-hour conversation with, and you're always disappointed if someone isn't as entertaining as their books, unfortunately.

I have the impression he does not go to many cons these days because of finding that aspect a bit tiresome.

I can imagine.

Unless it has been remodelled since 1996, the poolside bar works really well as a central space

Alas, the pool is gone. That would have been really nice, but now there's a room where the pool used to be, used as an overflow breakfast and dinner room :(

You might want to keep an eye out for Unicon in summer, then.

Good point. I went to the last one because it was here and enjoyed it, although naturally feel drawn to eastercon if anything.

I think the interesting argument to be made there is from the edge cases, because to my mind there are at least three different borders between SF and fantasy;

Indeed, edge cases are a great place to look. (As evinced by, eg. the study of mathematical analysis.) I've a lot more to say about this I'm afraid I'm going to postpone for the moment. However, thank you very much -- I always do like this overlap a lot, and steerswoman looks fascinating!

[cornute.livejournal.com]

"I think that's the longest I've spend inside, but can see why Americans and science fiction authors can imagine living entirely inside."

Ah, if only I didn't have to leave the house to go to work and the grocery store!

I could quite happily hole up in my house and never leave it from about the middle of April to the middle of October, as that's when the temperatures hit 80 degrees (that's, um, cheap American degrees; in real degrees it's 27) and NEVER GO BELOW THAT AGAIN.

Alas, I have a paycheck addiction.

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

I could quite happily hole up in my house and never leave it from about the middle of April to the middle of October, as that's when the temperatures hit 80 degrees (that's, um, cheap American degrees; in real degrees it's 27) and NEVER GO BELOW THAT AGAIN.

Whereas I could happily do almost the exact opposite, in theory. (To a first approximation, if the temperature is such as to require you to wear clothing, it's too damned cold.)

[cornute.livejournal.com]

I live in a warm state, such that it's rare that one needs more than a flannel shirt and pants to go outside.

However, there is a temperature such that one is uncomfortably warm naked, and cannot get any nakeder, and we hit that temperature in May and never get any cooler til the end of summer.

I laugh hysterically at knitters who make "summer sweaters" to wear "in the cool of the evening." The only difference between the evening and the daytime is the lack of solar radiation trying to set one on FIRE.

It's why I'm quite happy working nights-- I don't have to drive to work when it's 105 outside. (40 in real degrees.)

[angoel.livejournal.com]

* Thanks to Sebby, who got me half his room in the main hotel, and was a interesting, polite and inoffensive room-mate. I hope you were glad of someone to share with too.

From my side, I found it a most clement arrangement. Not least because you shared the same sort of idea about what time it was correct to go to bed, which is always a great advantage when sharing a room.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

:) Yes, indeed, it was very pleasant. It's probably too much trouble to arrange to find out people's habits and share accordingly, but it's very convenient when you do match up. We even (afaik) managed to get up and shower without getting in each others' way!