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jackWhere do I stand religiously? Still atheist, about like you'd probably expect. Although more thoughts in a follow-up post.
Is there any particular religion I'm not? I think that's a question which is interesting in potentially several different ways.
I generally expect a religion to be something like "some combination of a culture, a belief system about the supernatural, and a moral framework".
Culture-wise, I'm very much english and vaguely CoE. I do Christmas, and Easter, and other english religious-instigated festivals, and I'd happily do other ones instead if I lived in a culture where that was normal, but it would feel very strange not to do ANYTHING for Xmas. I went to CoE things with school sometimes, and learned hymns and so on, and I hadn't realised how much I'd subconsciously absorbed how I expected religious services to work until I actively compared notes with people who had absorbed _different_ expectations: not just the obvious things, as the things I didn't even think to question (of course you bury people in the churchyard, right?)
And I'm also sopping up a steady trickle of Jewish culture from Rachel and Rachel's friends, and I really value having the experience of another culture, although I doubt I'd get to the point where it would displace my background as my primary religious-derived culture (unless I specifically made an effort to do so).
So in one sense, you might say my atheism is "CoE with the God taken out", although that's not really fair to CoE, nor to people who don't believe in God but come from different cultural traditions.
The other way of posing the question is, what, specifically, don't I believe? Well, basically, "anything supernatural" (where supernatural means something roughly like "outside how we expect physics to work",but you probably know what I mean better than I can describe). Which was always presented to me as a defining feature of religion. With emphasis on "and therefore you should obey this set of rules even if they seem horrible". That's what I'm atheist against, that's what I'm not. Although, my terminology may not be right, because that's the background I'm coming from, but I encounter more religious people for whom that is a small or non-existent part of their religion.
Is there any particular religion I'm not? I think that's a question which is interesting in potentially several different ways.
I generally expect a religion to be something like "some combination of a culture, a belief system about the supernatural, and a moral framework".
Culture-wise, I'm very much english and vaguely CoE. I do Christmas, and Easter, and other english religious-instigated festivals, and I'd happily do other ones instead if I lived in a culture where that was normal, but it would feel very strange not to do ANYTHING for Xmas. I went to CoE things with school sometimes, and learned hymns and so on, and I hadn't realised how much I'd subconsciously absorbed how I expected religious services to work until I actively compared notes with people who had absorbed _different_ expectations: not just the obvious things, as the things I didn't even think to question (of course you bury people in the churchyard, right?)
And I'm also sopping up a steady trickle of Jewish culture from Rachel and Rachel's friends, and I really value having the experience of another culture, although I doubt I'd get to the point where it would displace my background as my primary religious-derived culture (unless I specifically made an effort to do so).
So in one sense, you might say my atheism is "CoE with the God taken out", although that's not really fair to CoE, nor to people who don't believe in God but come from different cultural traditions.
The other way of posing the question is, what, specifically, don't I believe? Well, basically, "anything supernatural" (where supernatural means something roughly like "outside how we expect physics to work",but you probably know what I mean better than I can describe). Which was always presented to me as a defining feature of religion. With emphasis on "and therefore you should obey this set of rules even if they seem horrible". That's what I'm atheist against, that's what I'm not. Although, my terminology may not be right, because that's the background I'm coming from, but I encounter more religious people for whom that is a small or non-existent part of their religion.
Re: Tyrant gods
Date: 2014-12-12 11:20 am (UTC)I recognise that postponing that was hopefully a good thing for you at the time, but I do want to add things that you probably already know, but I want to emphasise, for when you may think about it again.
I realise I'm not actually a reliable hotline to what God wants! :) But you can be humble in recognising when someone else, a non-Christian, has something valuable to say. And you can be confident in your own sense of God, in knowing when what you already think IS right and you SHOULDN'T second-guess yourself.
The church hierarchy isn't always right! I assume you know this in theory (for one thing, there's multiple churches!) And I think for you, like me, it's really hard to accept there's something important you think that people in positions of authority are wrong about, without confronting them directly about it. But that WILL inevitably come up -- it's BOUND to come up about some things, and even though it's hard you can say "I think I'm right about this even if I'm not absolutely sure, but changing people's mind isn't my immediate crusade".
But I think being gay is ok, being bi is ok, being poly is ok, not just "everyone sins and we forgive them" but actually ok, not a bad thing in any way. And I'm pretty sure if Jesus saw modern society he would agree without qualification, without hedging. There's lots of things I don't think I live up to, that I can imagine I MIGHT be called to account for, but if Jesus ever asks "so, did you trust in love and compassion and doing what your heart tells you is right, or did you hurt a lot of people by following a bunch of laws that made no sense because someone told you that's what God wanted, but you knew in your heart was wrong", I can't be sure, but I'll take my chances with the first option, not the second!
And also, I think it's fine to say that you can't address this issue right now. But also, I think it's wrong to say it doesn't matter until it affects you personally. If you think those things are sins, that will bubble up in the ways you treat other people, I think that really matters.
FWIW, I'm not saying you should do anything about this now. Likely the right thing is, just go on as you are, but bear in mind, this might be something you think is right but can't change people's minds on right now. But I don't think staying in your current church means you must accept this.
Re: Tyrant gods
Date: 2014-12-12 09:10 pm (UTC)And, for example, I know I regret the rare dalliances I had with casual sex in my youth. And, to turn around the traditional argument that one shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, I'm sorry I didn't work harder to stay in a relationship with people I'd had sex with. So I've certainly shifted my attitudes somewhat. Maybe they'll shift further; maybe not.
One thing I'm clear on, though — I should be much more careful about what I do than judgemental of what others do.
Re: Tyrant gods
Date: 2014-12-12 09:29 pm (UTC)I'm scared by even that much shift in position. But hearted by the last paragraph of this comment *shrug*
I know I regret the rare dalliances I had with casual sex in my youth.
*shrug* I know this is something people often enter into ill-considerdly and it goes very badly. But I know for other people, it's completely fine. My opinions may well shift too. I'm very open to giving and receiving advice about things that might usually be harmful. But resistant to blanket condemnations...
I should be much more careful about what I do than judgemental of what others do.
Yes! That comment should be engraved for everyone!
That's really right, for lots of reasons: partly that we can't control other people even if we're right; partly that we can guide them but only imperfectly, due to imperfect knowledge of them; partly that sometimes we're wrong; partly we might both be partially right about different things.